They don’t have enough people to do that. Or fix all the sets worth of issues at the same time.
1 Like
OK, in your world, DHs reign supreme it seems and vengeance is so cool a skill that it should be increased to a 4 min cooldown eh?
As to paragon, it was always a BAD idea. It creates imbalance. There are far better ways to reward group player experience, for example, increasing drop rates over solo. Better drop rate, better chance of that legendary item you want, or that ancient, or even that primal. I know of no other ARPG that does something like paragon, and there’s a massive reason why this is the case. Can you think of any other ARPG that has a similar XP system that is so unbalanced? mmm?
I await your witty response in ernest.
Paragon is most certainly an issue - you see players with p2200 struggling to beat a player such as myself who has 1000 paragon less than them. Something is clearly wrong where playing time grants you more paragon and the ability to beat a more skilled player. Remove paragon and you’ll sort the wheat from the chaff.
Again, it is far simpler to simply balance the vengeance cooldown time that allows us to free up a slot in the cube by not making it mandatory to use dawn, than balance six other skills…
Not true, everyone said the same thing about removing the AH, well guess what. Many people did leave and many more joined so it worked out. Removing paragon or capping it at 2k max could potentially save the game and developers big headaches from balancing issues every patch. It’s the paragon creep and 4 player meta where solo feels screwed if they can’t join in on the problem that plagues this game the most.
1 Like
Paragon doesn’t have any control over the one thing that both sides will have to go against and that is the luck of the draw. If a 1300 paragon player that knows how to play the build properly and has the gear to clear a GR132. If that player gets the right layout, density, enemy type, elites, pylon placement, etc… will clear that rift where an equally skilled player with a higher paragon and the same on every other count that only got lucky enough to get that right rift on GR130. Lucky in fishing is what will make a difference.
Paragon adds a powerful boost to what the gear provides so removing it would be a nerf that wouldn’t go well unless Blizz replaces it with something that would be superior to paragon.
1 Like
Paragon is a problem; However, it’s not the only problem and I know I didn’t say that in the last post, but for anyone who plays on the top of the game understands this like its common knowledge.
Paragon is only 1/3 of the entire problem. Paragon doesn’t just boost your main stat damage, but it also directly boosts your Gem levels, and Arguments from higher clears. This difference is then exponentially expanded when you’re playing in the group meta.
Here is the whole problem.
Classes that are unable to participate in the meta
Will have about 50% less paragon levels (time played being equal) by the end of the season.
Will have Legendary gems levels equal or lower than your Highest Solo GR clear.
Will have legendary gem argumentation levels on gear equal or lower than your highest Solo GR clear.
- Will not only have a DPS disadvantage, but once combine all the factors together you will have a EHP disadvantage.
Now lets say that you really want to get in the top 10 of the DH leaderboard which means that as a player you have only 3 options.
1) Play solo and try to compete in the solo DH leaderboard with a DPS/EHP disadvantage.
2) Quit playing the DH class and play a class that can join the meta, then switch back when you have the paragon, gems and argumentations upgraded to high levels.
3) Play the DH give up on your ranking goal, or flat out quit D3 until the problem is fixed.
If you choose option (1) Then you chances of being in the top 100 are almost impossible by the time the season ends. And like you said there is always a chance at getting the perfect RIFT, but the odds of that are so astronomical it would be statistically false to include statistical outliers when you need both DPS and EHP so survive and without DPS you can’t clear the rift and without EHP you will die and when your dead your DPS = Zero.
If you choose option (2) Then your able to get into the meta which will leading to you having a have high amount of paragon (based on your time played in the meta), Gem Levels and argumentations that that are 10+ higher than your highest solo GR and depending on how behind your class is (like the DH) then you could end up with 20-40 gem levels higher than someone who cant join the meta.
This is why you will see the top 10, top 50, top 100 of solo grift clears with gem levels, arguments much higher than those who can’t get into the meta. This doesn’t just happen with the DH it happens with all classes, but it’s an even bigger gap with those classes who are excluded and have no way to enter the meta outside of switching classes.
Capping paragon is just one way to help mitigate the power differences between classes if the developers keep buffing only a class or two each patch which results in some classed becoming substantially behind the rest. This is the exact reason the developers used to buff everyone at once. It made it fair to everyone, but for some reason they stopped doing this which is why we have a huge problem with a chunk of the player base when each new season comes up. The classes that are buffed last will always be at a disadvantage in 2/3 seasons; Whereas, the classes that are buffed first will always be at an advantage in 2/3 seasons if they continue to follow this new patching cycle strategy. The only thing this new patching system will continue to do is cause people to quit for good.
There is a fourth option that would likely put them closer than what a true solo player could do by himself/herself. Join a clan or community that would allow you to play your DH and help you get what you need. Sure by the season’s end they might not be at the same exact paragon, gear, gem, augment levels, etc… But they no doubt would be a lot closer to them than a pure solo player.
This very point is the reason why players have been asking Blizz to give them a true solo only leader boards. Where you mark your characters as solo. Then if they team at all during the season or non season those characters will not be able to place on the solo only leader boards.
Although I think that in order to have a true solo only leader boards and do it right you would have to make a big change to the game. Players that mark their characters as solo only would be on a separate server with its own shared stash, paragon, etc… I don’t think that will ever happen.
So the next best thing is to for Blizz to figure out a way of having more than one meta during a seasons. Where the game is setup to where DH, Necros and maybe Crusaders can be useful as far as teaming up together.
Where they could be very good teaming up together. Much like the time period in a game that has be shutdown since 2012 City of Heroes. During a time period when healers weren’t wanted, yes I know that might sound odd but it was true.
The reasons were simple, first of all the game was never designed to need the trinity in order to progress in the game. Any well built dark defender could handle what a healer could by lowering the enemies chance to hit you to 5%. Now if you are not getting hit much at all you take little to no damage.
Next the Tankers and Scrapers could hit their damage resistance and damage reduction caps on their own. Blasters could hit their damage caps on their own.
Although it did create a special super group called; “The Green Machine”. that Super Group had a team of 8 healers (Empathy Defenders (healer)) that could chew through content faster than a full 8 team of blasters. There was videos of that happening that I don’t think exist anymore.
I highly doubt that they will continue to add new sets every season. No, instead they would likely just make some buffs or nerfs to classes where it is needed after season 21.
Exactly. Those against removing paragon are the very ones abusing the system the most usually. I’d rather a smaller number of players playing D3 but a healthier ecosystem any day of the week.
I disagree. The game did just fine in D3V - yeah there was no paragon! Blizzard introduced paragon at around the same time that they buffed the XP for 4 man groups. Funny that.
Which doctor kinda has that problem with being required to have that stupid knife for extra armor thanks to a pair of bracers.
Look you remove paragon without putting something in its place. A system where players can still see that their characters are making progress, even if it is just a little bit of progress. If that isn’t there then players will quit playing faster it really is that simple.
That was the reason why paragon 1.0 was put into place in the beginning. Players were going months and months without any upgrades and complaining. So paragon 1.0 was added to at least give those players something to keep playing.
All of this against removing paragon and if you think that my paragon level means that I am abusing the paragons then everyone is abusing the paragons.
I thought paragon had a cap of 10k are you saying it’s endless? I understand the need to see progress; however, there are no endless games and they all hit the end eventually. D3 has primal so unless you get primal for all items then your still getting progress. Players don’t deserve to be greatly more powerful for simply playing longer. The difference between primal and ancients is good enough. The rest should be about your skill as a player. Paragon needs a cap, or needs A redesign again. Paragon 1.0 was fine and so was vanilla without it. The system we have now is the reason why this game is infested with bots.
1 Like
Never was. The tables I provide give the information that I claim to be in them. If I say it was the average of the top 40 clears, it was the average of the top 40 clears. Using this data and game knowledge, I and a handful of others were able to approximate the true potential of the ww/rend build to be non-season GR 144-146. Those of us who were correct were eviscerated by those who mistakenly said 140, or 141, 142, or 143 as top prior (when rend was 200% on lamentation) The truth always wins.
In this thread, you failed to recognize that the data that you quoted on wizards and necromancers being the top classes and that necromancers have cleared GR 143 was based on last era. It is important to get the information right to not make false accusations.
The data is clear and unequivocal DH and necromancers need serious buffs.
Then prove it. Go into those websites and proof it was from the last era.
Besides, I got proof from around 10 main Barbarian players, that you both spammed and was wrong in the tablets you were spamming. There were a long discussion about it and you refused to listen each time someone even explained everything to you. And you vanished from this forum, just to sit around and troll yet again. Really done with you. You lie about what I have written. You are false with the “facts” you provide. As Free and others adviced = ignore.
My take:
- Do DH and Necro need help? Yes.
- Should they have gotten some stat/multiplier tweaks for 2.6.8? Yes.
- Were DH or Necro sets ready for 2.6.8? No. (Though I’d argue the sets we got weren’t ready either)
- Would releasing 5 sets in a single patch be a horrible idea? Yes.
- Were Barbs really weak solo for a long time? Yes.
- Are barbs strong after 2.6.7? Yes.
- Do most people care about 4-man XP meta or zDPS builds? No.
- Is the term “barbarian agenda” totally ridiculous? Yes.
Also, IIRC I believe there was a blue post where MicroRNA’s infamous tables were essentially debunked, though I don’t care enough to go back and look for it. I’d say if there exists an “agenda” among posters on these forums, MicroRNA would be the one to have one.
1 Like
You mean by the data Blizzard presented in their blog post that is shown below:
| Calculated GR Average for 5K paragon player | Barbarian | Crusader | Demon Hunter | Monk | Necromancer | Witch Doctor | Wizard |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Non-season/Era 12 | 130 | 138 | 125 | 130 | 123 | 130 | 130 |
| Season 19 | 135 | 136 | 124 | 134 | 118 | 120 | 130 |
How do you explain that the pandemonium buff caused the scaled “average” Witch doctor to lose 10 GRs in their solo clears due to the seasonal buff?
@TuneOut,
Ok. So if I provide screenshot of the diabloprogresss website that clearly shows the era 11 data for US/EU/AS (no China) with the top clear being wizards and the current era 12 leaderboard where the top clears are crusaders, would you consider that suffifcient proof? I can not believe that you do not know that crusaders and not wizard are now tops in non-season due to the new AoV set.
Nope. You didn’t. Keep spamming false tablets. Was proven wrong on the Barbarian forum, proven wrong here. Adios.
You will need to click on the image to see all the screenshots. You can verify the information at Blizzard websites or in game by choosing to look at clears for a specific region.
Crusaders are the top class in the current era/non-season. The information from the diabloprogress website is last non-season era 11.
You can also look at the patch notes that talks about the crusader nerf (Why are crusaders being nerfed? They have cleared GR 150 solo in the current non-season).
1 Like
Do you now recognize that the data you quoted was wrong about it being from the current non-season? No matter what any website says you can check the rankings on the d3 home page or in game. Crusaders are top now not wizards in non-season.
Do you even read? You never replied to Necro still being viable for both zdps and dps.
You still derail this post.
Get back when you got something.