I cant belive i have to explain this, people dont mf alone becuase they dont "want to share"

Diablo II: Resurrected General Discussion
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people MF alone because a players get more loot in a single player game than they would if they got 1/8th the loot in an 8 player game… 8 player games DO NOT generate “8x” the loot

THIS is how the loot formula works

this is straight from Arreat Summit… Written by Blizzard North

1 1-(0.75^1) = 0.250
2 1-(0.75^2) = 0.438
3 1-(0.75^3) = 0.578
4 1-(0.75^4) = 0.684
5 1-(0.75^5) = 0.763
6 1-(0.75^6) = 0.822
7 1-(0.75^7) = 0.867
8 1-(0.75^8) = 0.900

if you suddenly add “personal loot” and evenly distribute that in a way where no more loot would be generated

it would just be that number divided by the amount of players

1 (1-(0.75^1) )/1= 0.250
2 (1-(0.75^2))/2= 0.219
3 (1-(0.75^3))/3 = 0.192
4 (1-(0.75^4))/4 = 0.171
5 (1-(0.75^5))/5 = 0.153
6 (1-(0.75^6))/6 = 0.137
7 (1-(0.75^7))/7 = 0.124
8 (1-(0.75^8))/8 = 0.113

thats what would happen…
how many people “asking per personal loot” know they will see and have access to LESS THAN HALF the loot from their 8 player game than they would in their single player game.

THIS is why people farm alone

not because "we are worried about “people taking loot”… its the GAME DROPS MORE ITEMS per person when PLAYING ALONE

adding “personal loot” wont stop people from solo farming

it won’t make it so you get the “same amount of drops” playing alone as u would in a party

the ONLY thing that is going to do is make it VISIBLE how much LESS loot per person is generated in a full game than in playing alone.

now tell me? are YOU going to farm items in a party?
people play as a PARTY when they want EXP, NOT when they want drops.

if you add “personal loot”
you wont “magically” get some scenario where everyone farms together.

what you WILL do is remove all the people who are doing service runs, because WHY THE HELL would i “help you level” if i get LESS loot from being in a party with you.

now if u understand this… and STILL wants personal loot… ok

but i want you people to at least UNDERSTAND what you’re asking for.

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Good post just a little nitpick on the math:
(1-(0.75^2)/2 )= 0.219 the division should take place outside of the parentheses like (1-(0.75^2))/2= 0.219

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nice catch!, your right .let me fix that, the answer is still the same i added the devision equation in the wrong placeXD

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I’d like to add that most people who play in groups will split-farm and regroup at chaos/throne/cows anyway to take advantage of the slight increase in drops without having loot “stolen”.

Ie. 2 sorcs and a paladin might group and the paladin will take easy quick bosses/farm routes (before enigma), like pindle, eldritch/shenk, high council, while the sorcs farm andy/meph/keys. Then they group at chaos/throne/cows. You get to have your increased drop rates, and a bump to exp at the same time.

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All good sir. This was a really interesting post!

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true, i also didnt included the part when the “number of players” isnt really the number of player in the game but the number of players in your party in the same area either… and that if you are splitfarming then it adds 1 per every “two” players “in the game”

i wanted to at least keep the math simple, i am trying to make a point, not confuse people… and as pointed out i already made a stupid typo i had to fix, so its probably for the best i didn’t go into too much detail about the specifics.

i encourage anyone who want more detail to read the full section on “parties” on the arreat summit
here

http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/basics/parties.shtml

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Access =/= Obtain

If players in an FFA game are equally good at clicking, the loot acquired per each character is the same between FFA and personal loot games for the same number of players within the limits of binomial variance. This assumes all players are collecting all gear drops. In a personal loot game, you can imagine that specific player may not pickup some loot. The loot is essentially lost. This highlights that functionally personal loot is harder in this regard and that it will be more difficult to gear up. In FFA, one man’s garbage is another man’s treasure so it makes it easier to gear up. Hopefully, this debunks in part some myths about personal loot.

You have also used monster kill drop as the metric. You have ignored that in single player a player does 1X damage and the monsters have 1X hp. In contrast in a 8 player game, the party can do 8X damage (and combat effectively monsters with diverse elemental immunities) while monster hp is 450%.

Therefore is it not per monster drop that is critical. It is monster drop per unit time that is the key consideration when comparing single and multiplayer games. For a game of specific number of multiplayers, total drops are constant. Therefore, the average number of drops per player is also constant between FFA and personal loot games (with binomial variance).

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this is 100% false
and this is the biggest issue you are missing

the statment you just wrote completely ignores the that if something i want drops for another person, and they DONT want, i CAN’T pick it up

it completely ignores the concept of " one mans trash is another mans treasure"

yeah there are ways to work around that by making every item visible for everyone and you cant pick it up until 2-5 seconds later if it didn’t drop for you ( PoE does this) but even implementing that causes other issues

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I edited it for clarity. It now reads

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Here is another way to look at the data:

Players in Game Party Damage (Assumes each player is 1X) Monster HP Total Drop Chance Average Drops per player Average drops per player per party damage/monster hp
1 1 1 0.25 0.25 0.25
2 2 1.5 0.438 0.219 0.292
3 3 2 0.578 0.192666667 0.289
4 4 2.5 0.684 0.171 0.2736
5 5 3 0.763 0.1526 0.254333333
6 6 3.5 0.822 0.137 0.234857143
7 7 4 0.867 0.123857143 0.21675
8 8 4.5 0.9 0.1125 0.2

The first thing you notice is that the difference between single and multiplayer is much less than what you presented. Moreover, there is a sweet spot of 2-3 players in game assuming each player contributes 1X damage and working together. It is only after there is more than 5 players in game, that single player is more efficient.

Things look different when one player can carry the entire group.

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That is fine. I just want to play multiplayer with rands and get a share of the loot. Theoretically 8x people killing should kill faster because monsters life isn’t increased by 800%, so you have to factor that in as well. Let us have our optional personal loot.

I see Micro already explained it above.

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Yep, I have a 2nd keyset that I use with my secondary laptop as a mule/cowmaker/Baal game maker. That nearly double jump of drop chance from 2 players is a sweet bonus.

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Optional personal loot is still a problem. Basically because it will always be turned off when you move from group play to solo farm. The devs need to add a ton of programing to accommodate a preference for some people to get pLoot when playing together and this option will never be used when farming. This is not how you properly create a system. You either get pLoot or your don’t, the option option is not good from the game creator side of things.

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That is why it would be set at character or game creation. There would be no mix and matching.

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If the players aren’t in a party and in the same area, the internal player bonus will get halved and rounded down.

E. g. the “no drop chance” for a normal monster is 62.5 % with 1 and 2 players in game if they don’t group up and play together, but if they are in a party it gets down to 38.78 %

If you solo play the breakpoints are at:

1 player: 62.5 %
3 players: 38.78 %
5 palyers: 24.05 %
7 players: 14.29 %

Here is the link to a really good drop calc for anyone who wants to experiment a bit:
http://mfb.bplaced.net/dropcalc/dropcalc.php?lang=en&patch=113&mode=lod&interface=default&window=true

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Yep, lots of town portals and the mule camping in a cleared area… And mouse without borders. :slight_smile:

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Disclaimer - No longer care if any additional features are added to D2R

I would still farm alone sometimes if they added personal loot. Or disappear off into the game to do stuff while the main group of people are busy in chaos or throne or whatever.

I thought the more people in the game the less chance for a monster to drop nothing at all (there’s a % chance that will happen I thought) and that only applies to white mobs not big guys like diablo or mephi or whatever.

I half remember something about if your in a party its effected and if your close to each other its effected too but not 100% sure nowadays about that.

Interestingly I read for a while on the link you posted and it says this :smiley:

This is to prevent higher level players from helping lower level players to advance further in the game without working for it.

and also this

The least structured method, but unfortunately most popular, is Free-For-All.

lol pretty funny that. Not trying to make you angry or anything just sayin…

If only this was the reality

If you get a good item such as a Set or Unique, stop looting and let other players in the party do the looting from then on. You got your good item so let them get items to make up for it. Don’t be a jerk! Share the loot! When you continue to loot items they will be thinking didn’t that player just get something good? And they’ll be right! You got your item, it’s their turn.

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Usualy you hunt specials for loot, unless you have powerfull hero who can kill everything fast so number of players in games is really not important as specials drops same number of items at players 1 vs players 8.

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Loot options have been standard in WoW forever. If this is a toggle at game creation it will not be an insurmountable hurdle to appease the majority who want it and the minority who do not.

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Path of Exile solved this. It’s simple, it’s elegant, it’s optional and controlled by party leader.

Ffa
Short allocation
Perm allocation

I gotta tell ya you feel pretty sick sometimes when an exalt drops locked for someone else and you can’t pick it up. Even worse if they skip it and it’s like finding water in the desert to you.

But it’s fair and since leader controls it if you don’t like the way they’re playing, find a different group leader to play with or ask them to switch it

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