Not 100% sure but all other shown items were new/updated since the ptr.
It’s not, because the Monk and Crusader sets at BlizzCon had higher damage multipliers on them than they had on the PTR.
Nah, we sound like this is the kinda thing that has been happening to us for years. Mortick’s, the WW nerfs, ploughing 125. You’re not around enough to see it. And frankly, considering how little you’re around, to march in and say we sound crazy comes across as plain disrespectful.
This is part of what I mean.
This is the D3 Barb community. Do you think we’d be upset if the item was additive? Do you really think that after years of asking for Rend to be fixed we wouldn’t totally test every new item?
Come on, man. This isn’t Reddit.
6 Likes
I’ve been waiting a WW barb buff for many years like a lot of people on this forums, and was pretty overjoyed with the PTR changes.
It honestly felt a bit more powerful than intended, but nothing game breaking, and barbs deserved it anyway, having the most active and dedicated community for years IMO.
A lamentation nerf to 100% was probably the best way to “fix” the class on PTR if something really had to be done.
But a whole 67% nerf is completely uncalled for.
Let’s see what we can expect if everything is going live without further fixes :
Note : I’ll avoid comparing Wiz SP Bazooka with barb as I consider it a bugged spec that should never have worked in the first place, and may be fixed in the coming patch.
Wiz Chandoto cleared a 145 in 13mn08 with 10.5k paragon, so a 146 is feasible.
Same spec cleared a 143 in 12mn47 @~5.1k paragon on live, so a 144 is absolutely possible, maybe even a 145 as the conduit was very badly used.
Difference between 10.5k paragons and ~5.1k paragons is 27000 main stat.
fuczzang who cleared this 143 had 41678 main stat. 27000 more is a whole 64.78% more dps buff, or ~3.18 more GR. Meaning that in the same rift, fuczzang would have been able to clear a 147, maybe a 148. Remove the seasonal damage rings and you’d probably have a 145 or 146, but fix the Squirt and you should have a 146 too.
146-3.5 after the 2.6.7 nerf is 142 or 143 at ~10k paragon, and probably anywhere between a 138 and a 140 possible with ~3k to 5k paragon.
Barb Rend cleared a 140 on PTR in 14mn10
First floor was very good with excellent mob type/density, but it lagged which caused 1 death (not very punitive for this spec), and patator’s amu wasn’t a FoT.
A better rift with one single floor or a very good second one would probably make a 142 possible (w/ good power and w/o lags).
Add in a very good FoT, and we’re looking at a 143 or 144. 145 seem far fetched honestly, you’d need the FoT and 6+ elite packs around a godly conduit to achieve it.
Let’s be generous and say that a 144 was possible (reminder : it’s ~87% more hp on mobs compared to 140).
That’s a GR 137 after nerf @10k paragon, or a whooping 5 to 6 GR less than POST NERF Chantodo.
The other problem is that in this 140 clear, Ze darkpatator seemed to have a lot of toughness problem. AFAIK he had the Channeling shoulder in cube, and for seasonal barbs, having Aquilla may be necessary because they’ll have up to 40% less toughness from their main stats.
Maybe there’s other way to fix this, but if not, then seasonal barbs at 4 or 5k paragons will not be able to clear a 133 or 134, only anywhere between a 131 and a 133, which would be 6 to 7 GR less than POST NERF Chantodo.
This also means that PRE NERF PTR Rend Barbs would have been within 1 GR of POST NERF Chantodo wiz.
Unfortunately, seems like devs listened to the army of nerf barb trolls and thought :
"This is unacceptable, so let’s make this spec inferior to this good old wall charging R6 HotA which is very good gameplay"
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That also crossed my mind, but rather be safe than sorry.
By the way, I could not see you GR Damage scaling post in reddit. We need to refer to it in some threads. What happened to it?
Everyone is crazy on this thread. There hasn’t even been an announcement yet and everyone is panicked.
Relax people, WW will be buffed in season 19 as compared to season 18. Enjoy the buff, try not to complain that the buff should have been greater.
This is based upon people that went to Blizzcon and saw updated changes on items. Based on those, people think they are changes that are coming.
Knowing Blizzard, they will never allow Barbarians to be on par with other classes.
This isn’t about enjoying the buff. This is about having an alternative to RAT runs which have been king since season 11. And yes the 7 GR nerf to rend will make rat runs king yet again.
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We are overpowering the D4 threads in GD. You guys saw the view and like counts?
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Will it?
Without a separate multiplier on top of the amendment of Rend to Wastes 6, the damage is not where it needs to be. Dropping the Lamentation bonus is at minimum a 7 GR nerf. So, with 10k Paragon, Dark would now clear 133 instead of 140.
WW was already a 130 build. 3 tiers is a meaningful buff when every other class but Monk can do 140?
GET OUTTA HERE WITH THAT NOISE.
9 Likes
Actually according to my calculation, lamentation should be actually 400% in addition to the double stacking.
2 Likes
140 on PTR was done with not a lot of fishing, with lags, and without FoT which is much better on barbs that can create density around conduit than for every other classes.
Wizard cleared 148 with the SP bazooka bugged spec that seem to be fixed in the next patch, but it remains to be confirmed. Top clears will only be with Chantodo if that’s the case, and ~143 will be the top after the nerf.
Necro’s current push spec is also greatly nerfed, or fixed, because it clearly wasn’t intended for the top spec to rely on the current retarded mechanism.
So a 200% Lamentation would have put barb at the top of DPS specs with Chantodo.
- a nerf to 150% would have been justified
- a nerf to 100% would have been understandable
- 0% is retarded.
- a buff to 300 or 400% would put barb above current Chantodo compared to other classes for solo/group speeds, and at the same level than SP Bazooka wiz for pushes. It’s way too much, especially considering that SP bazooka rely on AD, where WotW rend does not.
A 150% Lamentation is really the perfect number for me.
Thats because there are only so many ways to say ‘make D4 exactly like D2’, where as most of us have been waiting for the entire lifetime of D3 to have a competitive WW build. That and this is at least the third time they’ve done this (Mortik’s, IK 500% to 100% and now Lamentation to 0%), so the already frustrated Barb community is just done with being the whipping boy for the other classes.
3 Likes
Another reminder, that 140 with rend was with 10,500 para, and the wiz clears are with ~6k. Not even fair to compare those. Also, 200% Lamen puts that 10k clear 3 spots BEHIND the 6k wiz, after chantodo nerf. If things go as they look like, a 10k barb will be doing 133, while a 6k wiz will still be doing 143’s. Barb is still behind in any scenario.
3 Likes
Cannot read Chinese leaderboards for more clear infos, but the 148 was with SP bazooka that will be irrelevant next patch (nerf/fix still to be confirmed tho).
The wiz clears in the rest of the world with Chantodo are 143 max with ~5k paragons in season, which is equivalent to 146-147 with 10k, or ~143 after nerf.
The 140 barb clear was, once again, without FoT and not the best clear possible (no power for example). So comparing them is perfectly fair.
Rend Barb with unnerfed Lamentation = 0 or 1 GR more than post nerfed Wiz Chantodo.
So at best, they would have been even. A 10k wiz will be hitting 143 after the patch while the Barb will be at 136-137 tops. 6 GR behind. 200% puts them at even.
1 Like
Exactly. 200% was perfectly fine, 150% was good, 100% was ok’ish, 0% is dumb.
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Not so. 200% was just not so bad…
Yes it will be buff in season 19.
Seriously, I am not advocating a nerf I am just looking at what Dark did on PTR. How much testing did he do? Did he use optimal gear? Did he have the optimal build? How long has he been playing barb? Yes he had a good rift but many of these things could be better. 140 would not be the top push NS if the changes on PTR went live so people should stop stating that it is. I don’t know what it would be but if I guy can do it in a couple of days playing that is far from optimal.
Rend currently dominate all damage in the build and I doubt that is what Blizzard was going for. Free, you complained that WW did so little damage compared to rend that the SG ring wasn’t even needed. This really isn’t a good thing or a bad thing, it just is. Maybe blizzard decides to pull the rend damage back some, they make the game they are allowed to do it. Everyone here is spouting out number and crying how bad the nerf is like it has been announced which it hasn’t.
My take on it is If rend only added 3 GR to the current’ WW build it would be fun to play same as it would be if it add 5, 10 or 25 GRs.
Its a game relax and enjoy.
2 Likes
Pls keep the 200% buff,i’d say the average GR level should be 130-135(above that hard to stay alive…),everyone can go fish a thousand time for perfect map,ww is a solo build,there’s no place in meta with the ad lag…