I realize that people are saying that my analysis is overly simplistic.
At least relative to season 12, does anyone think that the analyses done by Prokhan was reasonably valid and considered additional variables? It may not be perfect but darn good.
Youâre missing the point.
Buffs shouldnât be conditional on inclusion in the meta. Buffs should not be withheld from a class because some of its players can play in groups. Your stance punishes all Barbs because some of them play in groups.
Instead of worrying about Barbs, worry about your class.
Remember, folks, the Barb community has never asked for the following:
All we have ever asked for are buffs to our class. We have alwaysâalwaysâargued that other classes need buffs in a variety of ways. We stand with other class communities, regardless of inclusion in group play.
Exactly. BUt it was not me who wrote this:
âThis analysis is also ignoring recent buffs (DH is way ahead of Barb and Monk now, and much more powerful).â
It was you.
Someone else suggest me to look at my own class and leave barbs alone. I suggest you to stick to your own class and leave DHs alone.
Would love to hear more about âway aheadâ part.
Barbs have a spot for things that are played 95% of time in this game. And DH does not.
I respectfully ask that this thread does not turn into âclassâ warfare. I think that we all want the same thing.
Does everyone agree with the following statements?
All class should have similar solo power. (Lets say within 4 greater rifts)
Yes or No
Ideally, all classes should the ability to be part of high-end 4 man metas? (Represented at least 8% within the Top 1000 on the leaderboard)
Yes or No
I think the answer is Yes to both questions. I think many would agree with me.
That is loads of BS man. You missed first few seasons or something? Forums where burning. It is not only barbs or dhs, everyone did it.
Every class except Barbarians received buffs in 2.6.5. This is why receiving no buffs this patch has caused a big uproar among the Barbarian community.
So I donât know what youâre arguing PeeWeee.
Iâm talking about his analysis taking into account previous eras, before DHâs and other classes got buffed. Wasnât talking about 2.6.6.
Solo DH and WD was buffed very recently. If âyour classâ is DH, you literally JUST received major solo buffs. See my post on the eraâs solo clears on all servers. Solo DH and solo WD have MONSTER solo clear potential now.
A rapid fire DH will annihilate ANY Barbarian clear â even world records with the most perfect of maps + wall charge â with TWO builds, LON RF and Natalyaâs RF. Impale is also generally much stronger than any Barb build in all but the most fishy of circumstances.
I play both DH and Barb and know exactly the power differences between the two. Solo wise, DH will trump anything a Barbarian can do right now by 4-5 tiers, easily.
The only thing keeping Barbarian in the realm of relevance is Raekor HOTA wall charge which is inflating their average clears for several eras now. Even with that mechanic amplifying Barb clears, theyâre STILL behind.
Does anyone agree that you need to get ALL the info you need, BEFORE making a post like yours.
Cause of right now, it shows lack of knowledge.
@MicroRNA I see you starting to understand and be more reasonable, thank you man.
Micro, the way you are basing your number is disgustingly wrong. How did you think that would make sense? You need to look across multiple regions and more than just the top 10 of leaderboards. If the developers listened to you, they would be basing the game off of only 70 players. 70 players out of more than 7000.
Every day, almost every half day I come on to this forum and see a new thread from you claiming a solution to class balance with minimal information and skewed numbers.
Youâre taking valid information from everyone else and throwing it out of the window. Your posts have no point to them because every other hour you have a new thread proposing a new solution.
This all started with balancing barb and within that discussion you still didnât listen to factual information developed by expert barb players.
Why not advocate for the information thatâs already in front of the developers faces?
Every single one of your posts has been completely and utterly wrong and you are deceiving people into a false narrative.
How many people need to say the same thing to you before you get it?
At this point, you are downright attacking barbs and all of the work and time spent on the proposal to come up with correct numbers, identifying underlying problems of the class and 2 solid options of how to go about fixing it.
I agree⌠Though we could do with more stash space to support this.
That should not matter that much. Barbs compete vs other Barbs on solo LB. Barbs are not forced to play other classes as much as DHs are.
You can farm Paragon and items on Barb if you want to push with Barb.
You can do the same with DH but you will not be as efficient.
Barb is part of group meta and DH is not it is that simple.
Everyone wants Barb in 4 man group almost no one wants DH in 4 man group.
Donât get me wrong. I would love to see some buffs and variation for Barb solo play. But in this game party play is way more important than solo play.
Efficient people play in party 99% time and some of them push solo at the end of era.
No. Just no.
Max GR solo with DH in Non season is 136.
Max cleared with Wizard in Non season is 145
Barb and Necro did 150 in 2 man.
good resource: d.163.com
So go advocate for DH buffs that help you get into groups.
Do not advocate that Barb shouldnât get buffs because theyâre in the meta.
Party play might be more important to you, but many players donât care one whit for meta play.
You get it?
Focus on putting together reasonable, rational requests for buffs you want, not nerfs for other classes. Because what youâre saying isnât true.
Impale DH can function as an efficient RGK in groups up to 150. Itâs not the optimal meta, but it can be doneâand often is done since DH is more consistent and requires less mucking about for good RGs.
Thereâs always going to be an optimal meta, and for the most part, itâs not good for Blizzard to tinker with that too much since some classes will always be left out. There is, however, a lot to be said for asking for buffs that help make âoff-metaâ more efficient, and thus more attractive as an alternative to the standard meta. Thatâs where your focus should be.
I will not advocate that Barb shouldnât get buffs. I did not do that in this thread also or you would be able to quote otherwise.
I prefer solo play also but that is not efficient. Game is designed around group play. You get it? If you play solo all the time and hope for some records you are wasting your time.
Please quote me. I want to see where I asked for nerfs to Barb.
Donât put words I did not say in my mouth.
EDIT: PS. If you donât care about meta you are posting on the wrong thread.
Hm, I have not found the monks buff but maybe Iâm blind.
Since I have no deep knowledge about other classes than monks I can only say somethin about them (and since I started a Vyr Chant I can do some comparison). The problem with monks is more or less that they cannot hold up with other classes, the balance of the sets is pretty okish (can be better of course)
Lets start with collecting builds that are possible:
generator (r6 or as i6r2 with shenlong)
WoL (Inna, LoN, Swk with fnr or with coe / unity)
LtK (Swk or LoN)
Uliana
U4I6
and a build many people want back from vanilla is the gen cyclone build that maybe never comes back again.
Gen is most powerful but unplayable sub 5k paragon (+ map / mob depending as hell) you have no possibility to get nde (since you need 4 passiva), no epi (since you play 0 cdr) so freeze, knockback, etc are hurting as hell. No way it can be a good build to play except you get the all I want is that rift.
WoL, LtK and Uli are pretty close but maybe most people would say WoL is the strongest - but maybe this is because since it is ranged you can do your dmg more often compared to other builds aaaand, ok, uli is a pretty hard to master build.
WoL is pretty easy to equip and relatively easy to play (but most players just do it wrong - many people donât see that it is a tk build). The thing is, from the start it is a 2H build but 2H builds are not playable since they do not do dmg compared to the 1 handed builds. Mistake number 1. Mistake number 2 is that the set which is giving the most bonus is the worst for the build. that is because you need vangeful wind for set bonus and you need sweeping wind as skill where you can use CS with the other variants and you can use RS to get doubled dmg + perma epi (which is what I want) and it needs def buff like shells or unity. There we have mistake number 3: Monks do not have a def ring or belt (take what you want). Sorc has a 80% reduction ring e.g. Another thing is comparison: when I see my monk doin lets say 3-7 trillions of dmg with each strike (itâs sub 10 and of yourse depending on positioning, zeis procc etc) and my sorc which is bad equipped does 250 trillions of dmg (ok, without coe cold rota its only 80 trio and maybe Iâm standing in a circle or whatever) the dmg is just a joke and sorcs also doin a wide range dmg. Sollution? Make it a two handed build again + give us my whished ring / belt (see below)
LtK should be kind of a generator with a spender. It can be a very funny build since you have perma epi (I want that) you can jump all over the map, cs pulls enemys together and striken gives you the dmg. Nice in theory but you simply die! Where are the defense options? Why you need FD in cube, why is there nothin better? Its just rng. So maybe remove the 5-7 monster xtra dmg of scarbringer, give fd a 100% uptime of doubled aps and gimme that ring (see below)
uliana playstyle is kind of unique. In groups its a better tk than a WoL monk (did try it in 120s, both are good but uli has more potential) BUT! there is just NO single target dmg and dmg overall is worse that WoL. EP needs a buff there and there needs to be xtra dmg on elite / bosses etc. Playstyle is fine, as all monk builds it lacks def but its the tankiest build if its a face on. Maybe it relies on unity which is crap.
A sollution for any of the nowadays played builds is the following:
bring in the âring of ytarâ
its leg property is âepi is running all time long and receives all runesâ
and redesign fire rune to additional (pls multiplicative) dmg. Give " Desert Shroud" rune more that 50% reduction and bam, buff accepted. It would make
Gen has no fear to be in knockback / freeze anymore + more def + more dmg
WoL / LtK / Uli get more toughness and dmg
then some slight additions on the latter three would make them even with r6 gen monk. you can make you free of unity and maybe orotz is not mandatory anymore.
Its just an idea but it would give a little dmg buff to all monk builds in a pretty even way.
ah and do not forget: a monk is a monk and not a healer. playstyle is not comparable in any way. personally Iâd suggest to remove group buffs from monk and barb such that they only give one thing which would make other group members needing more defense. You could e.g. remove inner sanctuary (or its reduction) completely (half). Noone uses it solo. It could e.g. also be doubled sized but half of reduction or so but maybe the healing ability should be left to healers but no additional reduction. I have no idea about barbs but e.g. the cry could be full bonus to him and half to group or so. Some more slight changes should make it equal to have a full support with you or play back to back all DD. All DD I did with my innas WoL monk and we did 123 with it (2 WoL 1 crus 1 dh) or I did 120 in 2 players (with dh and with crus). It can be a real fun to see this workin - but since 2.6.5. its just crap since we can play 3-7 level more if I just select my bad equipped sorc 
Haha I like it⌠A supp barb ok, but lets say you do not want to be a supp? I would love to see any combination of 4 man matchup in lets say 5 lvl or so. That would be awesome. And just a hint: I have a DH in my list playin 143 with it in a 4 man matchup. Its his highest and he is bk. Try to replace the sorc in meta with any other TK build (e.g. uliana or WoL) and you will fall ~20 levels down. I did 120 with my WoL (and Uli) but thats just the problem. If you replace Necro by a DH it falls about 5 level? In my personal opinion you are in a better spot there. And no, I never played that crappy healer since I hate it! Yeah playin just one class and you are lightyears behind⌠Maybe I do not have the time to equip more than one class properly. Its not ment offensive but please do not throw monk and healer or barb and supp barb in a pot. I know many barbs and monks out there that wanna have fun with the game and so they refuse to play supp even if they could go higher.
DUDE⌠I want ANY spot in meta group for push or preferably for exp farm. Anything. I canât even be a support with DH. So that is just 1 option less.
I was #1 DH in the world in 4 mans with support DH (2015-4 era)⌠Mostly because no one was playing it. Rank was 813 on EU LB. DH is just worse but people wanted to play with me as I was reliable.
I did 148 with DH BK⌠I only play DH for 7K hours nowâŚ
I will do 150 in 4 man after patch with DHâŚ
That will not change almost anything. DH is not part of meta.
Real monks are far away from being part of meta. Its a healer that is part of meta - so in my eyes you are in a better spot. And yeah, I also wanna have any spot in meta except support 
When you play 148 with your dh its just very impressive and then you can have 150 gems as well. I did my 129 Gems with 127 rifts which is my highest. Just sayin: Its not ment offensive
While support monk is boring as hell I think support barb is actually the only challenging class to play and most fun. Good barbs are hard to find.
Wizard is not playing, his macro is playing.
What! Why are you comparing DH and Wiz SOLO clears to a zbarb support clear with a dps thorns necro? Youâre describing Necro damage in groups. The Barb is not the DPS in 2p, 3p, or 4p. Atleast DH can kill RGs in 150
Groups is not solo. Go troll elsewhere.
DH solo clears smoke Barb Solo clears. That is a fact.
You intentionally leave out Barb highest clears which are one 134 with bug pack and (one time in season) and currently 132 (one in NS at p9800). DH has multiple clears for 132, 133, 134 and 136.
DH is much stronger than Barb solo and have way higher damage outputs. Donât bring Necromancer damage into this.
Simple question: What do you get when you finish 130 solo and what do you get when you finish 130 in 4 man? What is the difference?