The Barb proposals are for buffing Barbarian damage. Many people do not even care about groups. Many people don’t care about zdps Barb nor want to play one. Just because Necro has godly DPS in 2 player doesn’t say anything at all about Barb damage.
DH damage in solo is far greater than Barbarian damage in solo. That is a fact. Another fact;
DH also recently got great damage buffs for Solo.
Just because you enjoy or prefer groups doesn’t mean you can compare 2player Necro damage to solo clears. That argument is horrible and not persuasive.
Many people do not even care about solo. Many people don’t care about supper fishy DH RF build nor want to play one. Just because Necro has godly DPS in 2 player doesn’t say anything at all about DH damage.
Barbs usability in group play is far greater than DH’s. That is fact. Another fact;
Buffs that DH got for solo will not make it part of group.
Just because you enjoy or prefer solo doesn’t mean that solo play is more efficient than group play.
In group you get more EXP, more items, more bloodshards, more gemups, more augments FASTER. All of that is helping you be better in solo.
But the argument is about individual class damage, not the meta. The meta is a separate issue from individual class damage capabilities. The two issues aren’t related.
You are SOOOO wrong. Just look at the people who are pushing with DH for example. They get almost everything while they play other classes and then just play few days on DH for the record. People are forced to play other classes to be able to push with non-meta classes if they want to be relevant.
When it comes to damage capabilities in the meta, DH is way superior to Barb. DH has the damage to kill RG in a good time for xp runs in the 140-145 range and can even kill RGs on 150 in 3:30 with a znec or 4-5m without. Atleast if I want to play as a damage dealer in the meta I can do so as DH without being forced into a zdps role.
We’re talking about damage dealing roles. I understand that you can play zdps as Barb and farm paragon, but that’s a separate mechanical issue and still doesn’t mean Barb has better damage than DH.
The highest possible Barb clear even with Paragon 20,000 will not be higher than the same for DH. It’s just math. DH have better damage. Barbs are never going to be killing RGs in 150 at a reasonable time. Maybe they can kill a 150 RG in 20 minutes?
These are mathematical facts about damage roles. Good luck arguing otherwise.
Yes that is obvious but it is not that important. What that has to do with your ability to compare self to other barbs on leader-board? Nothing.
Because of group meta all of Barb have access to everything they need (gems, augments etc.), you don’t have to do that solo.
If you where #1 Barb in the world I think you would not care at all if WD could do X GRs more than Barb on average. You proved that you are the best Barb and that is the only thing that should be important to you. That has absolutely nothing to do with how much damage DH can do.
Actually according to your own logic DH is way better in the meta for a player who wants to deal damage in groups. A good DH RGK is more consistent than a Thorns Necro for farming XP in 140s. Of course ZBarb is needed but the point of people’s complaints is that they don’t want to be forced into support roles. Barbs cannot deal damage in any serious meta comp.
Atleast DH has the option to be a damage dealer in the meta. Barbs are forced into playing Harpoon which not everyone enjoys. It simply doesn’t fit the theme many players think about when they think about Barbarians.
DH has a damage role in the meta. Barb doesn’t and would be replaced on a whim if it wasn’t for two skills; IP and Harpoon.
Like I said before when it comes to damage DH > Barb. That’s simply a fact. And all anyone was ever discussing is damage. Not ability to pull mobs together.
DH recently got solo buffs. Now they not only have Impale (RGK up to 150!) but they also have very cool Rapid Fire Builds. So basically your entire argument in this thread is attacking a strawman and 100% irrelevant.
Look at it this way. If the meta was a ZDH instead of a Zbarb for 150s, the damage problem Barbs are talking about would still be there. The zdps role doesn’t change the argument.
See what I’m saying? It doesn’t matter which classes can pull stuff together for dps classes to kill and farm XP. People want damage options in the meta and in solo.
Monk has had a role in the meta since forever (zmonk), and they should STILL get damage buffs. Our problem isn’t with the meta.
Yes it would be there. If it was like that for last 10 seasons average clear on Barb Leader-boards would be even lower than now. There would be less people with high lvl augments, gems and so on. What you do in party affects your damage. Paragon that you get from party play gives you more damage, gems that you lvl up in party give you more damage, items that you get faster in party give you more damage and so on. So if you don’t have spot in good party your progress is slower and you do less damage in solo.
Because I only play DH I am still under 5K paragon. That affects my ability to push solo LB. If I put same amount of time on playing Barb I could still be relevant on Barbs LB.
Yes, groups provide bigger benefits for solo when you compete against your own class. More gems, more gear, more paragon.
But what people want are options (regardless of how high the numbers go in solo).
For example, the game would be a lot better if DH, WD, or Monk could have viable trash clearing builds as well as support builds. Game would be a lot better it other pull builds could replace ZB or ZM. Game would be a lot better if other RGK builds competed with Thorns.
What people want is options. Barb already has a zdps role. They don’t have a damage role. DH has a damage role, but Thorns is out of line so it’s used less. Yet, atleast DH has strong solo variety.
I agree that the game is a mess but our point all along about Barbs is they don’t want to be forced into playing zdps or Wall charge.
No variety will help you when you try to compete vs guy with 7K+ paragons (farmed on other class) while you are under 5K. If you are at same skill lvl there is no way you are going to beat him.
I disagree. The OP clearly points out that barbs are currently worse. How much more clear do I need to be that barbs currently need a buff. The fact that I point out that barbs were not the worst class during all of 2018 for solo greater rfit clears does not mean that I do not want barbs to be buffed. I have said so repeatedly:
But what’s that have to do with what Barbarians are complaining about, which is lack of damage roles in both solo and meta?
Again these are two separate issues you keep conflating. Anyone from any class can jump in the meta with a meta character and farm paragon to push any solo LB. Congrats.
Now what does that have to do with Barb damage roles? Nothing.
You can play from paragon 0 to 10000 with Barb and be super efficient. If you lack damage compared to other Barbs it is your own fault and that has nothing to do with other classes. You are not forced to play other classes if you want to compete on Barbs LB. Why are you comparing Barbs solo damage to solo damage of other class if you are not competing on Barbs lead-board vs other classes? You are not forced to play other class in party (where most damage comes from) like WDs are for example.
That is a strawman argument no one’s made, and even if it was it’s still not relevant.
Your problem is here —> Any player desiring to push any solo LB is free to make a meta character (rats or 150s or whatever) and get gems and paragon, creating and unfair advantage over players who don’t wish to do that.
The Barb community’s problem is here —> Barbs have no viable damage roles and limited solo damage roles due to being pigeonholed into wall charge builds.
Two separate issues, neither of which invalidates or alters the validity of the other. As I said before and you agreed to; the classes that occupy the zdps roles aren’t relevant. Stop conflating these issues.
You can still compete one vs other. It is even playing field. For every class there is only one build at a top. Here we spoke about top clears per class no?
For me that even playing field is much more important than number of builds you can use because all builds feel bad if you compare yourself to someone who has 2xmore damage due to flawed game design that forces you to NOT play your own class if you want to compete with it.
DH can also “compete one vs other”. All classes can. This is not relevant.
The issues you keep talking about with the meta offering higher XP and players feeling forced to “play another class” to compete in solo LBs are completely irrelevant to the problems Barbs are talking about.
You said it yourself.
Paragon >>> items. So it doesn’t matter which class you choose to use in the meta to farm Paragon. Paragon >>>> items, right? That’s what you said.
So your issue with having to “play a different class” to farm Paragon in the meta is not about Barbarian damage roles.
Your issue with the game and the meta has nothing to do with what Barbarians are complaining about. Your issue is with the paragon system and the bigger XP bonuses possible in groups. This is a problem every class has to deal with. It’s a problem of solo vs groups. Many people don’t want to feel forced to play groups to compete in solo LB.
Certainly, I do not know the developer’s thought process in relation to solo versus 4 man meta clears.
In general if your class can clear high solo rift content, you are more likely to be a DPS in the 4 man meta (assuming that you can fill boss or trash killer roles effectively without lagging the game).
As of now, the 4 man meta works best with 2 support zDPS (barbs and monks).
The two worst classes for solo DPS are barbs and monks.
Could it be possible that the developers that recognize points 1 and 2 and both barbs and monks are getting the short-end of the stick as DPS because of their zDPS role? I am not saying that this is happening or should be happening. However, it is a possibility.
Hypothetically speaking, if you were a monk or barb, would you trade a nerf to your group buff skills so that other classes replaced you as zDPS in the 4 man met? In return, you could solo greeter rift 135?