That makes sense. I’m just not sure about what it means for itemization. People (not me necessarily) are already worried that Defense will make lower tiers item obsolete very quickly. If it’s tied to Hit Recovery, it would accentuate the problem.
I think I would be OK with this if it doesn’t really obstruct gameplay, like 0,25s that can only happen once per second, so it’s more of a combat feedback than a nuisance. In addition to other hit effects more tied to CC Reduction.
We don’t know yet what this Defence is. Is it armor? Or armor and resistances? Or maybe even Armor+Reses+Evade? Or maybe even +more modifiers are in there already?
But anyway, lets assume it is just plain Armor number. If people want to use some low tier items for the sake of other stats, they just need to look for better Armor stat elsewhere. Again it make sense. If you want to wear bad (in terms of armor) chest armor, bad pants, bad boots, bad helm, bad shield - just because you want to have another affixes that give you something else, that means that you sacrificed them for armor and so must be prepared for potential problem it implies. Basically it is that same “GlassCannon” problem no game has ever solved. Because you can’t have everything, you can always choose to go for one of 2 extremes: absolute damage or absolute defence.
I think good itemization should always allow you varied options to build your character. So, speaking about Armor, you could gather it it in different ways from different items, where certain items like Chest/Shield/Helm could give great possibilities to increase it significantly, so you could use something else with zero armor. Or, if you want to use that unique low tier armor with that super cool unique stat it gives - be sure you can somehow get your armor from other items.
D2 itemization is loved so much by many because you always have to sacrifice something to get something - and this is true not only for armor but for everything else: HP, FCR, Crushblow, +skill, resistances, etc…
Defence looks like it is its own stat, just like Attack. At least it’s different from Resistance and no Armor affix has been seen yet, Defence seems to exist only on Helm, Chest, Gloves, Pants, Boots and the Strength Attribute. I think it’s a safe guess to assume this is like D3’s Armor which reduces all damage.
Anyway, I agree 100% that it should be a matter of choosing what stats we want to boost. I just hope the game is not balanced so the player would need to up all armor pieces every 5 levels or get OS like in D3…
Hit recovery is also not how combat works in real life.
I posted something that was more realistic and the pro D2 players in here rejected it because it wasn’t exactly what it was in the old games.
I just hope the game is not balanced so the player would need to up all armor pieces every 5 levels or get OS like in D3…
D3 items were rebalance to perfectly correspond Rift Sport Simulator, so the endgame goal in D4 will be different, there won’t be such itemization.
Hit recovery is also not how combat works in real life.
This is a nit-picking. What I’m trying to say is that Hit Recovery is an adequate combat thing, while running away from monster on every single hit is an absurd.
The way it works in the older Diablo games isn’t adequate though. There’s a reason they tried getting rid of it in Diablo 3: It’s just not a very fun mechanic to constantly have control taken away until you’ve stacked enough Vitality to make it irrelevant against 95% of enemies in the game.
You can change it into something that inflicts a heavy movement speed and damage penalty and if needed also restricts the use of mobility skills.
That keeps the mechanic and still has it so you’re not just ignoring packs of monsters. You can still have a full CC on some enemies, just don’t stick it on EVERY enemy.
If people just want them to remake Diablo 1 or 2, they’re going to be disappointed.
and I know people claim that’s not what they want, but you guys sure seem to find a way to insist that every last mechanic needs to be exactly like those games otherwise it’s going to be terrible.
In D2 yes, it is bad there. But not in D1.
It’s bad in D1 as well because again: Not a fun combat mechanic to constantly lose control of your character.
Blizzard isn’t going to bring that back.
For me it is fun. But for one-shot-everything-lovers like D3 casuals it is not. So yes, ofc course, they won’t make it back.
Well I never suggested that they make it one shot everything like in D3.
but I guess you’re no different than the others: My idea is ignored because I didn’t say “just copy Diablo 1”.
If you just want a remake of the older games, you can always just play those.
Well I never suggested that they make it one shot everything like in D3.
But that is exactly what happens when you play a Campaign or level yourself up to lvl 70. Casual-style. This is what all D3 is about and this is what they are trying to copy in D4.
My idea is ignored because I didn’t say “just copy Diablo 1”.
I don’t like your idea for 3 reasons:
You can’t be stunlocked this way, and this is bad.
You don’t feel actual hit from monster.
Suddenly slowed movement feels bad in D3 with its present combat and what you offer, if I got is right, is just D3 combat with slowed movement on hit.
As some said, “you guys seemed to have D3 PTSD or something”. Why the insecurity really? There is no logic in suddenly bringing D3 everytime the other person doesn’t share your ‘opinion’. Not just you, but basically every ‘it should be how it was in D2’ people do this.
Is it really so difficult to understand that I just don’t like how the combat in D3 goes? And when this is the case, yes, I will say again and again that it is bad. Because for me it is bad (and, what is most important, I explain in details why; and some explain it with even more scrupulousness)
I’m not talking about your opinion. Everyone is entitled to one. But one side often acts all high-horsey with their ‘opinion’. Guess which side it is. This side doesn’t look at the merit of other’s opinion, but go with the ‘o, it’s because you like D3 style. that makes your opinion of less value’. Not how logic works. Debate the merit, not with ad hominem.
As realism goes, I think HR is still better than what you propose.
Being stunlocked is bad… no reason to confiscate you from playing until you die, there are many, better ways to make the game difficult.
D3 was not that casual either, until they implemented these permastun, faster-than-light sets.
On that I agree. That’s where some kind of Hit Recovery may find a place in a modern ARPG.
Why don’t you read all my posts in this topic from the very beginning, because I’ve explained it all already as well as all logic behind it and even why D4 combat is as bad as D3.
Stunlock is just a realistic hit punishment, it doesn’t mean death (unless you go and fight the Butcher in D1 without any armor). You still can escape it if it happens - all depends on your Armor Class, monster Chance-to-hit and its attack rate.
Hit Recovery:
Armor prevents hit recovery:
Ok, I thought “lock” in “stunlock” meant “stuck” so the character can’t move (like it happened to me once when I teleported right in the middle of a megademon pack ^^)
As long as you can still run and cast a spell, and that melee characters can avoid most of it, I’m ok with HR. 
I skimmed through it all. Nothing against what you said, except the part where you suddenly lashed out to quash the other guy’s opinion with ad hominem, not with logic. You should read the part where I quoted you.
In case you think my opinion is same as him, against you, not necessarily. I’m quite flexible, not stiff. HR is least of my worry/attention in D4 (full open trading however). So you don’t need to talk to me about how you feel about HR. On a side note, I believe he was the guy who accused me of dividing, using hate when there was clearly none. So I’m not trying to defend him either. If we want what is best to be in D4, civil, logical debate is what we should have, not ‘o you like/dislike certain feature, have opinion because you’re a D3 fan’ approach. That’s it.
This all here is just a chit-chat, not a serious debate, and we all know that. Hence such forum behaviour. Believe me, everyone here will speak differently if invited to some official serious D4 discussion (maybe even with the devs themselves presented there). The best we can hope for here is that a community manager will take a note like: “well, it seems some are unhappy about this”, and with a certain amount of luck will pass it on to one of the devs, and with still further luck, it will be taken into consideration by the team, and with still further luck - implemented at least somehow in some way. The chances are next to none though .)