you are amazing! you are perfect to be a d3 dev because you have soo many ideas so, like d3 dev are doing for 9 years, you will change the builds every patch that no player will understand what game is playing…
After last PTR update solo push performance is something like 9-8 GRs lower than on live. For 2 man push performance is even worse because we don’t benefit from big monster pulls anymore same goes for any group play.
We still need more damage.
2 Likes
Thank you Blizzard for invalidating our efforts, I’m not going back at playing UE or shadows. I’d rather skip S23 or until you actually FIX something! This set is/was not overperforming. Fix the sets so we can play whatever we like and not however you like us to play.
I think that with the new leaderboard system, it will be obvious for everyone in a couple of months which sets need a buff and which sets need a nerf (based on their benchmark of Paragon 5000=GR130).
So they could leave things as they are now and see the results.
What I hope is that for patch 2.7.1 they just tweak the numbers for ALL sets in the game (no gameplay change) based on the S23 leaderboards and only in patch 2.8.0 they try to modify (gameplay-wise) more items/sets.
You guys are aware that all of this information was already available and always has been, right?
They aren’t going to suddenly discover latent S+ tier builds just because the information is neatly organized ingame for you when the real-world performance of builds has been available to them (and, really, anyone who cared to look) this whole time.
The set leaderboards are for low-tier builds to be able to compete against each other, not to do performance research.
1 Like
People did 133 at sub-5k paragon within hours of the patch going live i.e. very little fishing. Maybe it’s not the build that’s your problem?
That was an issue before the nerf. You have to skip reflecting mob types unless you are speed farming and can kill them before they start reflecting.
Don’t blame Blizz for your obstinance.
It’s 130, not 135. Big difference.
1 Like
Wudijo made a few points, these stood out:
1. It excels in lower GR content.
Yes it does. Because the extra 5,000% damage combined with Squirts and the Ambush passive allow you to kill low GR trash in like 1-2 hits. In high push, your trash requires many more hits before it dies. It is harder to spread Ambush via Area Damage over your injured targets with new trash because 3-pierces doesn’t reach much. Squirts uptime is much lower in high push, which exacerbates the difference in feel between 3-4min GR120s vs GR135. (Squirts + Ambush + Low Pierce Cap Problem)
2. The nerf is not noticeable in casual pushing.
I disagree. It is very noticeable if you are ‘pushing’ – otherwise you weren’t really pushing in the first place. Fighting 3 mobs at the Spider Caves entrance is not pushing, nor is running Festering Woods 10GR tiers below what your build is capable of is. I think we need another term for that type of play.
Running 14-15 min GRs, trying your hardest, with semi-optimized gear is still pushing, even if you misplay the build (skipped oculus rings, sloppy generator casting, poor pulling, pylon triggering etc.), as your damage is relative to what your are fighting. You’ll still feel the impact of the build’s shortcomings.
3. Missile Dampening is Gone and 99.9% Will Not Be Affected by Missile Dampening
I disagree, ‘casual pushes’ benefited from missile dampening. It was worth at least 5% progress, often more, even if you weren’t maximizing it.
Wudijo is a really talented player, he sees the game from a different perspective. Based on my pushes, I am having a hard time though believing that 15,000% and 3-pierces would net GR140 clears at 5k paragon, for if it did – perhaps it would be a 5,000 key bender to it pull off. My own guesstimate of 134-135 is for 300 keys – we have to keep the tiers semi-relatable, maybe that gives you back-to-back Festering, a decent mob type, and a 4-5 elite conduit and power pylon and shield thrown in there, but not a the boss.
Maybe we have to challenge Wudijo to demonstrate a GR140 clear? 
On the PTR of course…
9 Likes
Counterpoint…after 2 seasons of alleged “OP” status, the DH again is relegated to the scrap heap (zDH excepted) while for the next 2+ months the builds that still can do 140+ are doing 140+ and gaining more XP, higher gems, better augs that will be useful if/when their set gets the nerf bat applied. And for those that don’t get the nerf bat in S24…another 2+ months…and S25…another 2+ months…
It’s like they should have thought “we need at least a month of PTR to test capabilities of new sets and make sure they aren’t OP/don’t suck” instead of slapping a 2 week window, then “we’ll fix it later” mentality.
It just really stinks (harsher word needed) that the DH was the last to get a really great, high power new set…and the first to get hammered by the “balance” nerf.
2 Likes
Technically the necro got and lost it a week into the PTR. For me that was a literal day of playtime.
There was no point in pushing with any off-meta build before, because you could never enter the leaderboard with it. Now there may be people willing to push with the sets they actually like, and it’s very likely that we’ll see what most sets can achieve.
2 Likes
Even if you want to pretend there’s an informational black hole on their performance (completely false), we already know
and that was more than enough to have done something by now if that was their intent.
These leaderboards are for underperformers to retreat into, not climb out of.
2 Likes
Did you really expect people to push with Marauder’s, for example, even if it could clear a GR130 at 5000 paragon, when GoD was so much better? What would be the chance of getting into the top 1000?
With the new leaderboad, you WILL see people pushing it, even if it only reaches GR120.
1 Like
People = one person. After DiEoxidE, the next sub-5k clears are at 130. Four players under 5k cleared a 130. So yes, 130 is very doable without fishing, but 133 sub 5k is an accomplishment.
So maybe not just troll someone for the heck of it. The GoD nerf is a disappointment and needs to be fixed.
6 Likes
That has literally nothing to do with needing it to do balance updates. We already have clearly documented disparity that doesn’t get addressed. It’s not something they’re unaware of.
Set leaderboards change nothing except your comfort at being the best Marauder DH under 500 paragons in NA on Tuesday.
Note: I’m not against set leaderboards - I think the idea itself is great. It’s people pinning their hopes on them for being anything but what they are that’s completely delusional. It’s just a difference box for you to be 300th place in.
Where? Based on theoretical potential? GR150 should be impossible to solo, but here we are.
Who is saying no one has theoretical potential to clear 150? 
We have the leaderboards in their current state with huge class disparity you thumpwaffle. If they can’t keep track of seven, what good will adding 20+ more do?
3 Likes
GoD was not overperforming - period. On the the other hand , many have been underperforming, ex wd and monk most sets. idc for solo leaderboards or followers - it will not fix the 5-10 Gr loss. How about the get less innovative with what works ok*, to those that don’t. Nerfing a set unto uselessness don’t fix issues. @ Tebo, I agree there, some are overperforming - patch that asap lol not NERF* I now officially dislike that word hahaha
3 Likes
That is not a counterpoint…that does not counter the design goal of GR135 at 5,000 Paragon which GoD DH now does after two iterations of PTR.
It is not relegated to the scrapheap because it does what Blizzard intend it to do in line with all classes and all builds are to do once balancing is finished.
You feel as though it is relegated because it was overperforming and now nerfed whilst other builds for other classes are still overperforming.
But we all realize all classes and all builds cannot be balanced at the same time and it may take several iterations over several patches.
It is just DH this turn…I’ve no doubt sader and necro will get their pummel from the nerfbat soon too.
2 Likes
It was according to Blizzards design goal of GR135 at 5,000 paragon in NS. Once you align builds to this baseline then yes GoD DH was overperforming.
2 Likes
I disagree, other sets need to be fixed. wd and monks are easy examples to this statement.
1 Like