Diablo IV Announcement Discussion

General Discussion
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I feel like Diablo 4 is a step in a right direction when compared to Diablo 3, but not enough. Here is my feedback and suggested changes for D4 with my 20 years of hardcore Diablo gaming in mind. Hopefully it does reach the community managers:

  1. Remove health bars from being displayed on all enemies (only show the highlighted one as in D1/D2/poe).
  2. Change item art, make larger items use more spaces. It should be more similar to D1/D2/poe to both better display item art and feel more realistic with bigger items taking up more bag space.
  3. Move mana/energy orb to the right side of the screen.
  4. The random “world boss” as seen in the demo is bigger than anything in the entire Diablo or Diablo 2 where you kill everything up to and including the greater evils. It feels out of place in the Diablo universe (including all Diablo books for those who’ve read).
  5. Change text font for everything (needs to be more D1 and D2 style). Current one is straight from D3 and feels nothing “medieval” but rather modern. This is applicable to the entire inventory UI.
  6. Remove cooldowns from most skills (OK to have “F” this ultimate button to possibly fight for your life). Cooldowns promote the use of all skills as soon as they are off cooldown in a meaningless way, without strategic/situational choices being made.
  7. Blood splashes are over the top - currently hitting one monster 5 times creating 5 blood splashes that are larger than the monster in size itself, yet the monster lives on.
  8. Damage numbers already too big at level 20.
  9. Remove the damage numbers from being displayed altogether (D1/D2 style).
  10. Use rune art from D2 (why reuse “Vex” but not it’s original art to keep the game universe consistent?).
  11. Single Player / offline mode needs to exist.
  12. Rework potions.
  13. No maxing of all skills. Players need to make choices.
  14. More talents / meaningful skill tuning.
  15. Need differentiation between different types of damage (it is currently dumbed down to D3’s version of equiping any 2hander to give you 400% damage to everything).
  16. More / different stats than just damage, defense and life.
  17. Fix runewords.
  18. Add charms (separate inventory is a very good idea though).
  19. Add town scrolls and similar utility items back (with separate inventory slots in mind). Or add quests that teach characters the use of portals (or similar) in a meaningful way. Barbarians should not be able to cast portals as a common sense.
  20. Item stats should not always scale based on item level. High level monsters should not always drop high level items. Low level items (especially uniques/legendaries) should have valuable attributes that are meaningful to all levels, hence making that item special and actually unique/legendary. Look at D2 SoJ vs D3 SoJ. Look at D2’s Vipermagi or other items - they remain valuable as time and levels go on. Making everything scale around item level is just a lazy item implementation that devalues everything not being max level and everything once new expansion and level cap rise comes. Don’t make the same mistakes WoW and D3 made, learn from them.

I feel these are necessary for proper immersion and integrity of the Diablo universe and continuation of the success of the initial two games. Diablo 3 alienated the franchise in many ways and it feels like D4 may otherwise continue to do so.

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I’ve sussed out where I’m at with what I’ve seen so far

I don’t mind the open world idea nor the binding on pick up BiS gear, I can even learn to love the art work of Sanctuary. What I don't like is the mechanics of the characters, which is D3; nor the art work of the items, which is D3; nor the affix system of the gear, which is D3; nor the lack of skills available in the heat of battle, which is D3.

I’d really like to see Blizzard move away from these things I’ve highlighted and focus on evolving the D2 style of item art, the D2 gear affix system such as described here and here, and D2 combat mechanics. Also, return the character equipped gear screen to D2 LoD’s style, the picture of a character class with boxes around it isn’t appealing and a waste of space. Also include the addition of weapon switching for all character classes.

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Mac?..and I have to have 20 chars.

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This has become a rambling thing so, if you are reading this Blizz, thanks. Diablo IV – The deeper you go, the darker it should get. The darkness should have its own “sound” and damage you if your light radius isn’t strong enough to keep it away. Also, after you clear a dungeon, the ambient light should “shimmer through” like in older games. The best thing about diablo is that you are going down into hell, facing disgusting, terrifying, hateful psychopaths in the dark. Nothing compares to discovering the butcher for the first time. He is terrifying, the dungeon is terrifying, and you want to kill him dead but also are scared to death of him. This is the ideal “tone” for the game. It’s nice that the open world environments are beautiful and all, but the horrifying corruption that threatens it should be repulsive. I think most of the demons and creatures are not ugly enough. We should be saying “wtf is that? OMG kill it with fire!!!” No pretty demons, please, unless they are in disguise. Also, the voices of the characters in D3 were too “normal.” These people are going into HELL to kill demons. They are messed up people. They hate demons. They shouldn’t be little weenies in dialogue. Dial them up to psychopath and then walk it back slightly that they are still “good” anti-hero types. What would be even better is that there is a “corruption” mechanic that recalls the “wandering stranger” of old. The higher your level, the deeper you go into hell, the more corrupt you become. The more corrupt you become, the less the darkness hurts you, and the more light begins to hurt you. Something like that. There ought to be a “state of your soul” stat or set of stats that buff/debuff certain elements of your character. The more of a certain type of demon strain you kill, the more you take on the nature of their corruption. You become “stained” not only by what you kill, but by the things that you witness in your missions. Obviously, the deeper into dungeons you go, the more awful the crimes/feeding/gore/corpses/monsters should become. At a certain point, the environment of hell should be so repulsive and dark that you almost don’t want to continue except that you want so much to destroy the source of the stench/blight/carnage. Heroes are one part adventurer, one part detective, one part vigilante, one part soldier. It would also be cool if your name changed based on the things you have done, monsters you have killed, or choices you have made. It would also be cool if you could edit your weapon/items based on some element of accreting experience and when you drop it, it becomes a part of the world that some other player could find by killing a monster in that same place. You could level up your basic weapon to mythic status in hardcore mode, and when you die it becomes a part of the world! (your name)'s Penultimate Scythe of Eternal Wounding… etc. You could even give it a name on death. I also want to note that a lot of the effects in D3 were too colorful or cartoonish. A stink cloud shouldn’t be so green that you say “oh that’s poison” like lime green. Does trash give off a green poof of stink cloud? No. Realism with elements of color would look best. Also, it would be great if demons would speak in the darkness more than just “kill the hero” and “get him” etc… it should be like going into a prison with all the evil taunts and nightmarish voices swirling around. As you go deeper into hell there ought to be hallucinations and awful noises like “dark ambient” music. The “demonic face” art of D3 is too cartoonish or icon-like as well… like tiki statues almost. In Mexico, cartel members are making satanic altars with real human remains. Its evil and gross. That’s what these demonic altars or sigils or temples etc. should look like. Hell should be the last place anybody in their right mind wants to be. It’s not just fire and horn things and lava etc. It is the final sewage ocean of total defilement and atrocity, as if the very center of the earth was a stinking aquifer of horrors. When real-life people – cops, soldiers, doctors, psychologists – descend into this pit of (human) evil, they are stained and wounded by it. Part of the heroic effort is having the courage and resolve to go and do this anyways, day after day, year after year because somebody has to do it, driven because such a person can’t stand the idea of evil going unchallenged anywhere on their watch. Of course, over time their humor becomes darker, they become hardened to the evils they see every day, and some fall in to the darkness themselves and give in to the nihilistic pit of human evil which is very real in this world. Maybe if you don’t deal enough with the corruption of your soul, your hero becomes “fallen” like Izual, and wanders that part of the map hunting heroes!!! That would be cool!!! Hardcore heroes die and become “fallen” with all your gear. Alright I’ll end it here. You probably won’t read all this or incorporate it into the Diablo IV gameplay, but thanks if you did. Oh also it would be great if each hero had their own “homeland map” because I don’t think the Witchdoctor’s country is even on the map lol. Thanks!

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332

I only have a little to say. There is already an MMO and diablo, I feel, from it’s history should not be. It also makes the player base (which I bet is quite high) who have avoidance personality disorders or anti social not interested. MMO forces people to group up to get the best loot or special items.
Just speaking out for them, I love psychology.

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Yes, this is a great way they could utilize that weapon swap/shapeshifting thing.
With having a Spear, 2h Axe, Polearm etc. in one slot and a Bow, Crossbow in the other they could both serve as a melee combatant and a ranged or either of them for different build. Solid!

I would LOOOVE to see both Amazon and Necromancer in the game.
Since they are going for the darkness of the esthetics and there is alot of focus on that, the Necromancer would be a fine fit for this games 5 starting characters.
“Hawezar” region looks like they might have that Necro in mind, so heres hoping :wink:

Edit: rephrasing & spellchecking

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Don’t forget: Mythical items come with four Legendary Powers. Not just one.

From what I’ve been hearing, Skills can be changed, but there may be a cost involved. They just haven’t decided what the cost should be or how it will be implemented.

They’ve also stated the the Talent Tree can be changed any time the players want… and at no cost.

This makes sense because, once you’re able to respec your Skills, at whatever cost, you should be able to modify your Talents to synergize those Skills.

Not a problem for me. I always play female Characters, when I can, anyway. :wink:

Lead Systems Designer, David Kim, has already stated that both, the Skills and Talents, would be expanded on. What we saw at BlizzCon was just a sample.

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First off I would like to open with saying that I am very impressed of this game so far! It looks amazing, Ive played Diablo since the first game and have spent uncountable hours on this series. Since feedback was welcomed here are some things I would like to see and or change in Diablo4. (Some of this may already be in the game or planned, im just expanding upon or giving my opinion of it.

  1. Trading - I think most things should be trade able, I like the idea of the most endgame godly stuff not being trade able, however this all proposes the problem of in game currencies as well as wealth gain. Example - If I have x currency and/or wealth built up, what am I really gonna spend it on if I cant trade for something good with it? It concerns me because for example in D2LoD If i found a GG item or a High Rune, I could then trade it for a different GG item or Make a good runeword with it. A lot of the concerns from my knowledge with trading are basically 3rd party item sites and Hacking. I think this would be combated by heavy action on Hacking. Legit players don’t have the time or Luck to efficiently supply 3rd party websites this is mainly done by botters/hackers. So maybe we could have everything tradeable and just control hacks?

  2. Party size - D2 had 8 players, D3 had 4 players, I feel like the more the merrier Ide like to see this at least upped to 6 or 8, If you guys plan to do clans and whatnot, 4 Man party sizes are fairly small. I think being able to bring at least one of each class would open up some interesting dungeon/content runs. Im sure all classes will have perks/bonuses to each so why not make it so everyone can be important to the group etc.

  3. Runes - This is cool. Glad to see them return to the game! I noticed we are reusing the same ones from D2 so far from what I have seen. I think if these will play a decent factor in power/progression to the game, we should have more than 33 assuming half are condition and half are effect or whatever the proper terms were, or maybe add something interesting with it as well like you could combine 2x effect or 2x condition to = something. This will allow way more combinations of “runewords”

  4. PvP - I think Diablo PvP has always been more of a fun thing to do. We see all the issues with balancing and meta problems etc in any competitive PvP mode, like wow arena for example. I think its more important to have fun PvP than super balanced pvp. My concern is wasting to much time/resource with trying to get it right and it never really being where it should be. I love pvp and want it to be fun and everything but in my opinion it could be this crazy fast paced thing kinda like it was in D2 it doesn’t have to be a 20 minute battle where nothing dies like world of warcraft arenas.

  5. Loot - I want loot to feel legendary not just be called that. In D2 you had to farm and grind to get good items which kept the chase going and in d3 you killed a boss and got 15 items and that is a terrible way to do loot. Nothing should be guaranteed to drop. Loot is one of the most important aspects of a Diablo game and that needs to feel good. Also why I liked trading because I could find the best item for Class A while playing class B but then i could go trade it for something that was for my class or currency etc. Also While on Loot, I didn’t Like that i saw the ancient items returning. I feel like with Ancient items it makes everything that is not ancient feel irrelevant. Maybe Add some kinda of system where we can Upgrade items rather than having items drop that are not ancient. Also you could simply return to the ranged affix system where I could Find a item and it could be low range so its not as good but if i find the same one with 100% more dmg its godly. I just dont like Ancient items and I think most would agree. It just makes everything non ancient feel bad.

  6. Monsters - Obviously dungeons are important and very Diablo. They are going to be a huge thing in d4 which is awesome because Dungeons > Rifts. One of the main things I missed in Diablo3 was Boss farming. Ide like Boss hunting to be a viable way of obtaining gear as well. If I wanna do item hunting runs on Lilith or Diablo etc etc Ide like to be able to do that rather than just clear dungeons. I think this was very bad choice for D3 when rifting was the only efficient way to obtain loot.

  7. Endgame - I think this game is gonna be very successful and long lived if we have a very great and strong endgame. So far I am impressed of what we saw but we can not only have Dungeons, Worldbosses and PvP zones. There needs to be a ton of things to do. People play a campaign or story a few times and Its done with. Everyone wants to get to max level to be able to do endgame. We all rush and powerclear through everything to get to max so we can do endgame activities. Seasons / Ladders of course would help with things like this because as the team mentioned we could change things up quite drastically with each season, but I feel there should be more to Core gameplay for endgame as well stuff that you can always do.

  8. Classes - We have Barb, Sorc, Druid. 1 Melee, 1 Caster, 1 Hybrid. I think We need a ranged Archer type class for sure( Archer, Ranger, Amazon) and then possibly another caster/melee hybrid like the druid. Example Assassin It has ranged style play with traps and melee with martial arts. I think there should be a lot of choices when it comes to classes so that everyone has a playstyle they like. I think Diablo2 classes covered the styles quite well, Heck im sure no one would complain if we brought back all 7 of those!

  9. Level cap - I liked not being able to reach the absolute end level without tons of commitment, It felt way more rewarding. Everyone being max level and then having things like paragon levels just was not fun and puts you at a disadvantage. In diablo2 seeing someone above like level 92 was cool. You thought wow thats impressive or I know the feeling! I only ever got to 97 myself and that took forever but I felt bad@ss! I feel like making the max level very hard and a long time sink makes it so you always have something extra to strive for and your not at a huge disadvantage if you dont get there, It is not manditory but If you do go for highest levels its extra skill/stat points bragging rights. Also If levels became part of a endgame grind we could have a classic Ladder style competitiveness to the game as well not just dungeon leaderboards.

In closing I would just like to say, thank you for everything you have done for this game. It is looking amazing and 100x of what diablo3 was. I have great love for blizzard and blizzard games. I have huge faith in this game. I feel diablo3s issue was that the game launched in a terrible state and the rest of development went to fixing instead of expanding. Diablo4 Looks very promising and has the potential so far to become the #1 Arpg. PS. Make sure you guys include methods for the company making money off of this game, So it can be actively updated. No monetization = beating a dead horse. Pay to win is obviously not the way to do it, but from what I have learned over the years is if you make a great product and don’t force people to spend money beyond initial purchases/expansions then they will be more willing to spend money because of the love and appreciation for the game.

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I think we agree that in D3 there are not only a “few” bad apples. Just check the Leaderboards. And THAT destroys the game for many legit players.
And nowadays where everything has to be monetized in a game the botters are worse then 20 years back. D4 will be flooded with China botters and trading will be a pita. That’s what I think.

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I hope there’s a PVP game-mode that puts everyone on an equal playing field. Options for armor and weapon sets for everyone. so like each player has an option between 5 individual sets of armor, and 5 individual sets of weaponry before the match starts. I also want a separate game-mode that brings your pve gear that you worked hard for.
They’d be called something like this. Diabolical Casual (arena, ctf, pve/pvp mixed, and capture the objective), Diabolical Ranked (arena, ctf, pve/pvp mixed, and capture the objective) , Infamous Casual (arena, ctf, pve/pvp mixed, and capture the objective), and Infamous Ranked (arena, ctf, pve/pvp mixed, and capture the objective). Infamous being the equalized gear mode.

On a different note, I watched a video of a dev asking for feedback on leveling. So I’d like that 40 levels to take a really long time, like 5/3 compared to diablo 3. I’d also like if paragon leveling was only character based, not account based. It would make our characters feel more great. I dont like the feeling of my character getting buffs because my other characters the ba one. I want each character to earn its bad-***ness.

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“Infamous Mode” would be so easy to add, and it would give the game a real esports gamemode. IDC whether it becomes esports or not, I just like real rngless competitive equality gameplay.

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Unfortunately I couldn’t see all live panels. Did they say something about the type of loot? Will it be private loot like in D3 or “shared” loot and I have to be fast to get to pickup loot in groups.

341

My sentiments exactly! Prefer solo play and randomized maps is A MUST! It’s just not a diablo game without those! And as you said - no replayability!

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No Paragon levels …

No overpowered players in PVP needed ;D

D2 players know how hard was reach max lvl.

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Not all items should have the same size in the stash. I want to make 6 socket runewords like in D2. In the gameplay so far it looks like you can only have maximum 2 sockets. (it is so satisfying to compete a 6 socket runeword)
Please, make the game harder. 2 sockets are too little if you want to compete with PoE.

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all you salty players judging this game waaay before beta. I’m hopeful for this game. Don’t turn this into a cashgrab blizz. Just make it good by old blizz standards and we will buy. No paywalls, but optional money transactions are fine for cosmetics, new areas/ content is fine. Love the return to dark theme.

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From what I’ve heard, it’s individual loot drops unless you pick it up and drop it on the ground. Like it is now in D3.

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Hi guys,

Here is my feedback about game design:

  1. The speed of bosses movement and combat pace are too slow. You do not feel the tension. It is very easy to dodge them for range characters.
    Inspiration: That feeling when you know you can’t run away from D2 Duriel.
  1. What if people (or even group) start to abuse some skills blocking the narrow passages (e.g. bridges), entrances to merchants or vertical routes for others in the open world.
  1. When a character goes down or up a vertical wall does he become invulnerable? If yes, then vertical walls can be abused in conjunction with certain skills like teleport/leaps to avoid any damage during PvP fights or recharge the skills.
  1. Non-designed places to gain tons of experience or loot, e.g. dungeon keys with certain modifiers (e.g. double summon) and dungeon monsters (like Fallen Shaman) who summon other creatures infinitely.
  1. Some sorceress lighting skills are too bright and grab all attention, e.g. Conduit skill implementation/color is too cartoony for the gothic, dark atmosphere.
  1. When a monster drops loot on the ground the loot is individual, if you drop loot on the ground other people in the party can see it.

  • What if you have a full inventory and try to pick up “bind on pick up” item would it be bound to you immediately or became visible for others?

  • If it becomes visible for others and you disconnect, can they pick it up?

  1. Sorceress’s Skills tab besides active skills contains the passive skill and passive only effects. What about a separate passive tab or move them to talents?
  1. It feels like the sizes of items in inventory are too small. In general, the inventory interface could be improved.
  1. Potions need to be reworked (e.g. healing potion). Instant restore feature should be unique property of Legendary/Mystic potions.
    Inspiration: Mystic, medieval elixirs/flasks of different shapes and look depending on the zone.

I hope it does reach the community managers and dev team.
Thank you

Continue discussion: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d3/t/diablo-iv-onstructive-feedback-on-gameplay/5778?u=forthegranny-2108

347

The overall darker look looks nice but there are huge red flags that are in the core game play mechanics. The trailer looks nice to but.

The lack of common attributes on items like: Armor, Fire, Cold, Lightning, Poison Resistance. No attack or cast speed, no Strength Dexterity or Intelligence. Do you really think in a game where the core game play is to make your character stronger people will be happy with a stupid design of attack and defense stats. You really think this is good?

Next the run system. Why do you try to invent it new? Because the runs of D2 have stats that you think are to complicated for the current idiot generation of casual players in your eyes? Just copy the D2 runes system.

Next why do you give each class different resources to use skills. No one needs rage or spirit energy crap just make mana for all classes so players can use items how they want.

And finally the game needs to be play offline and even if I am online i don’t want random duds in my maps!!!

Get your job done and stop experimenting, The community want a D2 game in current generations Graphic and not a water down version of your stupid mobile games on PC.

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I am very excited about this game, and I remember watching the teaser for it, and thinking…wow…this is…scary horror stuff. That’s what I’m talking about and want!

It sounds like we are going to see Hell as it truly is meant to be seen, a scary horrible place. No offence, but the Hell Rifts in Diablo 3 feel like a trip to Disney land compared to what we got in the earlier Diablo games.

I do have one question about story though…if Lilith is meant to be the one that created Sanctuary, then why are we fighting her? Isn’t she meant to be a good demon?