D2R: Personal/Instanced Loot is a MUST for this game!

The question is what we want to achieve with this game. Do we want the endgame item hunt to be an individual endeavor or a cooperative one? It has nothing to do with fairness or competitiveness. As it stands with Diablo II currently, there is simply no point playing in a group to find items.

Most normal monsters in a solo game have a nodrop chance of ~62%. This means that they will drop an item about 38% of the time. Currently, in a full party with 8x the people, you aren’t even getting 3x the drops from normal monsters that you would solo. This doesn’t even factor in the unique monsters which always drop something regardless of player count, and those are where a lot of the highest end unique items such as Crown of Ages are coming from. In fact, normal monsters cannot even drop that particular item. Even with high end unique items that normal monsters can drop, you need to kill 15-20 of them just to have the same chance as killing 1 unique monster. And that is with a nodrop of 0.

As far as the economy is concerned, well there never has been a legitimate one in D2, at least on BNet. Duping has been around since pre-expansion days and botting soon followed.

I have been playing on a server for a while now where the nodrop is 0 across the board for all player settings. The economy works quite well there. However, at the end of the day, the problem still exists that everyone is in their own private games to find items rather than playing as a group.

As an example, I have done around 1700 full clears of Hell Chaos Sanctuary since the beginning of the last ladder season and have not found 1 Ber or Jah rune in those runs. That is with every monster dropping something and me collecting all of the items. It isn’t as if these things are going to be raining from the sky even if there are increased drops per person in games with multiple people in a party.

There needs to be an incentive item-wise to play in a group. Currently, playing solo nets you nearly 3x the drops of an 8 player party in which the drops are divided equally, and that doesn’t even take into account unique monsters which always drop something whether there are 8 players or 1.

I suggest a personal loot system in the sense that when a monster is killed, an item is rolled for each particular player. All items will still be tradable. Decrease the nodrop by 5% or so per party member in the same area. What I mean by that is that in a 1 player game, when a normal monster is killed, it will have a 38% chance to drop an item. In a game with 2 people in a party in the same area, when a normal monster is killed, it will have a 43% chance to drop an item for player 1 and a 43% chance to drop an item for player 2. And so forth for each additional party member in the area.

I get that there is the thrill when an item drops and everyone can see it. I like that aspect of the game as well. However, if this remains the case, there is no way I will be playing in a group to find items.

6 Likes

Do Not Change a thing about Diablo2 but the graphics.

They already changed things.

Have you thought about the consequence of a global server if drops are party wide and not personal?

Have you thought about the consequence of larger inventory and shared stash?

Have you thought about how the economy will change with integration into battlnet?

These all change the game. Personally, I want to see improvements made. D2 was my favorite game at the time but to say it is perfect gameplay is missing key issues that should be fixed.

2 Likes

Auto-gold-pickup and a shared stash certainly change nothing of interest about the game, unless people really enjoyed muling for its own enjoyment, or having to click on the ground every so often to keep the repair fund funded.

Stackable gems and runes likewise change nothing of import, since they only do away with yet more muling, and that wasn’t a “gameplay” mechanic as such either.

I don’t understand why people would resort to leeching if instanced loot would be implemented.

Surely if the loot is shared (as it is know) I can just stand around the boss / mob pressing and holding the Alt button without attacking, then hoovering up the loot while others do the hard work. The game actually incentivises this behaviour.
With instanced loot the player’s focus is on dealing damage instead of stealing from others.

Someone please enlighten me. Thank you.

6 Likes

Then having to compete for items isn’t integral. It may have been how it was, but it seems more if a relic if the past not something important.

3 Likes

People will still spend real money on gear if they want to.

They could easily weigh certain items for certain classes a bit.

PoE also has Personal loot system and also has a really good trade system.

So things like “personal loot will ruin trading” are false.

Also all the modern aRPGs have personal loot as well , hardcore ones and casual ones… not only D3.

And some people who claim to be “hardcore” have only played diablo… and nothing else. That’s pretty casual if you ask me…

Play PoE and then we talkin’ about hardcore…

4 Likes

They actually have an actual economy system going that works really well.
A critical difference is that the currency system implemeted there resembles money a lot more than D2. You can actually have a “bank account” (currency stash) and even if inflation happens your “account” still functions the same way.

In D2, you can’t stack anything, there is no dedicated stash for whichever currency the community settles in. Inflation in D2 cannot happen. Imagine if an item that costs 2 Zod runes today, started costing 64 Zod runes tomorrow. How would you trade that?

Grim Dawn has personal loot , Last Epoch has personal loot , Torchlight has personal loot , Wolcen has personal loot , PoE has personal loot… etc.

All aRPGs and MMORPGs have personal loot nowadays…

Shared loot generates many bad things with less positives…the only positive thing is if you’re lucky and get that loot.

Personal loot has no bad outcomes as far as i know…

I would rather be unlucky with the system (if i get trash loot,at least i got it) than been screwed by my teamates or bots…

4 Likes

While I want personal loot as well (and a lot of other QoL stuff), I can see why it can’t be implemented to D2 without some deep changes that most of the playerbase doesn’t want.
Like I said, the easiest way to please both sides is to have different servers for personal and non-personal loot, with one being completely incomunicable with the other.

100X this. When D2 was initially developed, I suspect it less computationally intensive to have global loot. Computer technology has evolved over the last 20 years. Personal loot is the gold standard now.

Why do you say most? I think it is fair to say a subset of players want global loot while others want personal loot. To my knowledge, there is no data to claim one side is more or less than the other.

Or simply have games where the initial game creator or Blizzard marks it as either personal loot or global loot. In this scenario, it is a win-win.

A more robust economy is in fact with personal loot when you interrogate the math. See post #205 in this thread.

3 Likes

This won’t work if characters playing with instanced loot can trade with characters playing with global loot. Overwhelming inflation will happen.

No, the total drops between the two modes per unit time are the same.

8 player Game
Global loot = 80 total items per unit time

Personal loot = 10 items per unit time (since 8 players = 80 total per unit time)

So there is no inflation. Moreover, see post #205 to see the economic implications. Personal loot results in a higher percent of the playerbase who can participate in trade versus global loot that leads more to the haves and have nots.

2 Likes

D2:R is a revival / refresher of an old game, it’s not being remade in a new light with an these changes. Loot is perfectly fine as it stands in the current game. Survival of the fittest or mf alone if you can’t handle the competition.

We don’t need increased drop rates, we don’t need personal loot, if the take away the item chase, they will ruin the game.

Finally, please stop bringing up current games that utilize personal / instanced loot. They are modern, D2:R is a modern look to a legendary game, it is not a modern game.

If it were survival of the fittest that is fine; however it is not. Global loot promotes leechers who simply survive to swoop into get the good gear since they are not worried about doing DPS. Also, it promotes, autoclicker hacks.

Also, D2R will be on a global server. It therefore will not be survival of the fittest but who lives closest to the server and has less ping. To me, your asserion ignores these realities. The game is being update to modern graphics, shared stash, no character expiration. All of these are modern conveniences. To me, personal loot is simply a modern convenience.

Two people will get two drops. Certainly that is better than one player getting 5 items and the other seven players splitting 5 items where 2 payers get NOTHING.

Over time ands considering simple probability and averages, will results in 800 drops where players will get 100 drops give or take a few.

1 Like

How will you balance the division of 10 drops between 8 players??
Also this way of doing personal loot misses completely the point of even having it in the first place. AFAIK, none of the ARPGs mentioned above do instanced loot that way.

Leaderboards are global, not the entire game server

I think they mentioned that it will be global. Not just the leaderboards.