[Barb] H90 Focused Feedback

PTR Feedback
409

The problem with Ground Stomp is what will you give up?

Charge? Less mobility, zero ability to escape from bad situations.

War Cry? Give up 60% dodge? Not a chance.

Threatening Shout? Nope.

Wrath or IP? Trading a Stomp for 50% DR? Not a good trade.

Some players on the PTR have used GS in their clears, but they have the Paragon and main stat to survive in the GR 125-130 range, and they’re still not climbing higher.

The build flat-out needs more damage and more mitigation.

For what it’s worth, I suspect that there’s only 1 free skill slot in the build, and I think that for most players, we’ll use IP there even without PoC. With 50% CDR, IP’s cooldown is very manageable, and it provides a much needed respite from CC. Remember, the higher we go, the more CC becomes a problem, even with the Juggernaut passive and a CC roll on gear (which, I might add, isn’t easy to acquire, and could make gearing for this build a nightmare).

I strongly encourage the developers to help address the CC problem via the 4-piece set bonus. Perhaps something along the lines of:

Each stack of Frenzy provides 8% damage reduction and reduces the duration of crowd control effects by 5%.

With that change, and the Juggernaut passive, we can better manage dangerous situations that involve lots of CC.

4 Likes
410

I’ve had similar thoughts, but needed to explore how things currently interact, as I am uncertain AD has any meaningful impact on the performance.

Then it is just a matter of enabling the sets to utilize the correct mechanics. WotB however is a very strong skill, so to make it less attractive to use, is quite difficult.

411

About Fear. I was looking for ways to make H90 2pc bonus useful.

  1. Fear is hard CC. Shares diminishing returns with Stun, Blind, Charm and knockbacks.
  2. TS-Terrify rune: base duration 3 seconds. Affected by H90 2pc bonus - fear duration increased to 6 seconds. NOT affected by inspiring presence passive. I don’t know if it is intended, but if Inspiring presence affected fear from terrify rune, this passive could potentially have some value as DPS boost for H90.
  3. If you use Charge or Ground Stomp before using TS-Terrify, affected enemies will get just 4 seconds of Fear duration due to diminishing returns, effectively -30% double damage window. If you use Charge + Ground stomp before TS-Terrify, enemy is feared for 2 seconds, -60% double damage window. Subsequent Fears are even shorter.
  4. Terrify is NOT affected by Yellow (and blue?) elites’ natural 25% CC resistance, elites are feared for full 6 seconds. Don’t know if it is intended.

To sum it all up, casting GS or Cold Rush, or both, before using Terrify is actually bad gameplay. Using Wrenching Smash is even worse, as you get both knockback and stun before fear, first fear becomes 2 seconds, subsequent fears even shorter.

Solution to make most of Fear duration can be Slow effects. Slow is light CC, which doesn’t get diminishing returns. There are 30%, 60% and 80% slows in the game. Different Slow effects stack, up to 90%+, which makes catching targets easy.

The problem is: Barb does NOT have many options regarding Slow usage in conjunction with H90. GS-Deafening crash, a good 80% slow for 8 seconds, comes after stun, and thus we have only 4 seconds of initial fear to deal damage. TS-Intimidate (60% slow) is another rune for TS and cannot be used.

Followers: Templar with Intimidate skill (80%), Thunderfury (30% for 5 enemies) and EoJ (60%) on paper looks good, but in real combat he usually hangs in the back meleeing random single white enemies.
Soundrel with Crippling Arrow+Multishot seems better option, testing him atm.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: Frenzy-Smite messes Fear up royally. It’s old design, from the days when CC had no diminishing returns.
I suggest Frenzy-Smite rune should be reworked to 60% Slow.

3 Likes
412

I’m also, all for, taking out the sidearm rune for frenzy. Rock giants and spinners, no bueno, and we already have to deal with certain feared elites that make combat ridiculous or impossible (ghosts/wasps), no need to throw in insta procs as well :slight_smile:

1 Like
413

So I’m generally curious, and granted I’m still leveling up Gems before really pushing (Only at GR95 so far). Why isn’t Mesers for S20 being used by the community more? My understanding is that CoE is designed more for Burst Dmg, which H90 doesn’t have so it feels like a nearly wasted Slot. With Mesers, Diggers and Bastions all Cubed, outside of dead stretches/crappy density I have 100% uptime on WotB at 48% CDR.

So what am I missing here?

Edit: Worth mentioning the rest of my gear;
6pc H90 with RoRG and Aquilas, Unidsputed Champ, Morticks, BoM and FoT

414

Bane of the Trapped takes care of Slow for us. A re-work to a skill rune is pretty unrealistic, but there may be a way to work that into the set. Honestly, I don’t think the devs are going to back down from the Fear idea, and if that’s the case, we just need to make sure the damage bonus is significant.

We haven’t been testing Seasons since data for Season clears is irrelevant. If the build is rock solid in non-Season, it will be even better in Season. It’s much more important to focus on non-Season right now since that will determine the base power potential of the build.

Messer’s isn’t a bad for early Season, but as you push higher, you won’t proc it enough for the weapon to be worthwhile.

415

Ptr Patch ist coming

416

Yup to new patch

417

Never suggested giving up any of those.

This is false. Wrath and IP do not equal 50% DR unless you have full uptime.

Permanent WoTB/Mortick’s requires cooldown rolls on gear, zodiac, Mortick’s bracer, 2 skill slots (of which you just said only 1 isn’t locked), and a passive slot for Boon. Since DR is your goal, I’m assuming you would sacrifice Threatening Shout Falter (50% damage), CoE (50% damage) and the potential to use Vambrace or APD bracers, which also offer significant mitigation.
You are also forced to spend time using the spender in this scenario, losing more dps.

IP requires PoC cubed which is only viable w/seasonal buff, and means ALSO giving up 50% damage from CoE, or giving up RoRG+ Aughild’s combo.

And this isn’t even mentioning losing damage rolls for cooldown rolls

The d3planner I linked above was for a mid-high para push setup. If you are looking for perma-CC immunity+toughness you can only do so by taking massive losses in other areas.

That being said, we are actually on the same side here, as I also feel the set needs a significant buff, regardless of what setup is most efficient.

418

Neither is the pull from Wrenching Smash, but point taken.

Perma-IP isn’t the goal. The idea is to use it in dangerous situations, or moments when you absolutely need to break CC. With Iron Hide and 50%+ CDR, your downtime is less than 15 seconds. True, it doesn’t give you the DPS that Wrath does, and for that reason, high-Paragon pushes will almost certainly opt for Mortick’s and Wrath, but using IP with Strongarms is very, very good for most other players. I don’t advocate using PoC for the reasons you mentioned.

Not sure yet what the optimal route will be, but that’s almost always the setup that offers you the most damage. Really, it’s going to depend on whether the build gets more DR (and how much) and whether that helps mitigate the CC problem (and how much).

Personally, I think a better route to snaring Feared enemies is a Freeze roll on belt or weapon. Much harder to gear, obviously, but worth trying when the new PTR patch drops.

419

Good point, I forgot about the dr from the knockback effect of Wrenching Smash- the initial concept was just to maximize burst inside the 4 second coe window, but now it’s obvious that taking Falter rune for a constant 50% damage buff and relying on EF and other sources of fear is more optimal unless something changes before it goes live :man_shrugging:

420

There is one issue with dieing a lot in a GR. It can be fine on PC if your build allows you to go back to max damage quickly, but dieing on the console version just gets you FUBAR’d. In the console version, nephalem globes give players double damage, and mobs are balanced around players having nephalem glory up at all times.

So I imagine (hope?) that when the developers design these new sets that they design them around the player being able to survive without constant deaths to any little thing.

421

It was never JUST cc from Wrenching Smash, or about using Wrenching Smash defensively. You have to consider AD + Bloodshed value with the pixel stack, locking mobs in place during your CoE cycle, gaining other damage/defensive stats on weapons & armor instead of cooldown rolls (Amethyst in helm, life per hit, life, all res).

That extra damage value inside stomp/coe allows you to play more defensively between coe rotations without losing as much effective dps, which synergizes with the 50% DR while moving with Endless Walk. Charge/run around kiting+grouping → Stomp+Burst → repeat.

You always have the option to trade damage for defense based on your paragon/personal preference, even with the build I linked above you can add major DR without changing much just by swapping Trapped to Esoteric, taking defensive passives, and adding vit in paragon. If you have some Vambraces or APD’s, you can swap to those for even more DR.

422

Has anyone looked at how H90 will work for group play?

If it is set up as a glass cannon with a zbarb with the 2 piece h90 to handle 2 of the shouts and IP and a zmonk to do its thing is it a viable RGK?

Perhaps like the pest set or the clunky Inarius RGK set ups they are limited to mid range solo clears and can be useful at higher tiers as a part of a team?

423

Isn’t there another option so fear can be use while things are frozen? Isn’t there a legendary when you do a shout Avalanche and Earthquake trigger? It could be feasible using that combo to freeze and fear at the same time.

424

GR(s) Cleared: 103. a new personal high.
Main Stat: 11,323
Paragon: 1092
Basic Build Info: (items + skills) 6pc, Oathkeeper(162%, not ancient), Echoing Fury(not ancient), Nem bracers(ancient), BoM(ancient), The Compass Rose(not ancient), The Traverlers Pledge, The Undisputed Champion(372%)
Bane of the Trapped 77
Bane of the Stricken 73
Simplicity’s Strength 68
26% frenzy increase
84% area damage
18.7% fear
21% CDR
25% attack speed
30% crit
549% crit damage
30% CC reduction
6% melee damage reduction
886k life

Cube:
Bastion’s Revered
Depth Diggers
Unity

Furious Charge, Merciless Assault
Threatening Shout, Falter
War Cry, Veteran’s Warning
Battle Rage, Bloodshed
Frenzy, Sidearm
Wrath of the Berserker, Insanity

Strengths of the Set and Build: Great survival once you get stacks. good ability to stand in bad things. good damage output, sidearm hits ranged targets for a lot of damage.

This build appears to be able to scale very well to start, i was able to exceed my own personal best of GR 100 without any trouble, and that was before i switched out Aquila Cuiras for Depth Diggers.

I finished GR103 with plenty of time to spare and no hard deaths, only 3 soft deaths.

Weaknesses of the Set and Build: Stilty mobility. when you lose stacks, its dangerous. the visual effect for chaining isnt very clear.

Critical Problems:
i dont play high enough level to have ran into any.

Additional Impressions or Notes:
i cant emphasize enough how easy it was to hit GR100. I didnt bother to loot the caches over and over to get good gear, only looked at 2-3 items per slot.
The interaction with Side Arm works out well. there were times where i would throw ~10 axes a second or so.

425

can you explain why? im loving that side arm is killing things that run away.

426

Since you use the belt that gains all runes for Frenzy, taking which rune will just decide which elemental damage Frenzy would be. Maybe he’s been stacking cold damage increase in his gears so the cold rune works better.

427

i read that differently… IE he wants side arm removed from frenzy.

428

Some mobs like Dune Dervishes can reflect ranged attacks (this is not the reflect damage affix). Getting hit by your own sidearm hurts a lot, with the very high probability of eating several in a row due to the speed of Frenzy.

This is a problem because if you’re wearing the Undisputed Champion, the only way to prevent this is to not attack at all.

Personally though, instead of removing Sidearm, it should just not be reflectable.