Barb Buffs in 2.6.7: Feedback and Analysis

In this thread, I offer my consolidated feedback about the Barbarian buffs in the current 2.6.7 PTR. I’ll be going item by item, and will address specific community concerns at the end.

Remorseless, Fjord Cutter, and Fury of the Ancients

While these buffs are huge steps in the right direction, they are currently under-tuned. IK HOTA, in particular, lags behind all other major builds, and all variations of Slam have labored under the enemy cap from the Bracers of Destruction. Our initial proposal for both weapons was meant to coincide to other build-specific supporting legendaries. For that reason, the current buffs on these items is slightly underwhelming.

Suggestion: Increase the buffs on Remorseless and Fjord to 550% and 400% respectively. Fury of the Ancients is perfect!

Wrath of the Wastes and Rend Items

The largest changes came in the form of new Rend-centric affixes on Lamentation and Ambo’s Pride, and the amendment of Rend to the 6-piece Wrath of the Wastes bonus.

Let me be clear: These buffs are very good and I do not suggest any alterations to the current PTR iteration of these items. That said, there are two important points to address.


Up until these buffs, Rend was a practically useless skill to include in the Wastes set. Simply put, it couldn’t, in any scenario, deal meaningful damage or provide meaningful utility. The Zodiac Whirlwind build suffered from the following:

  • A total reliance on AOE damage from Whirlwind, Dust Devils, Area Damage, and Bloodshed
  • A total reliance on rare, specific map and mob combinations to be able to deal meaningful damage
  • Demanding gear requirements
  • Tendency to generate game-breaking lag

As a result, the build was forced to “fish” Greater Rifts for high-density map and mob combinations. Without extreme density, the build was unable to deal damage. This meant players spent hundreds and hundreds of Greater Rift keys looking for rifts that could be played, and many good map and mob combinations could still be thwarted by bad successive map tiles, bad Pylon spawns, or RGs that don’t spawn adds.

Now, the build deals all of its damage through Rend. This resolves all above frustrations with the build. But a side effect is that the Whirlwind skill now deals zero meaningful damage in the build. What’s more, the sole supporting legendary for Whirlwind, the Skull Grasp ring, is equally useless, and will be dropped from the build for other, better options.

If this was intended, cool. Otherwise, I ask the developers to address it down the road. To be clear, I am not advocating for nerfs to the current buffed items in order to make Whirlwind more relevant. Instead, I prefer that Whirlwind be buffed via Skull Grasp.

PTR Clears & Rend

You have no doubt noticed that Rend Barbs on the PTR are clocking some impressive clears. So, in order to head off cries for nerfs, let me be perfectly clear: DO NOT NERF BARBARIANS.

The PTR is, due to ease of access, an imperfect testing environment. Blood Shards can quickly and easily be acquired, and as a result Primals can be rapidly acquired. Various clears with 6-10k Paragon are not in any way representative of what the vast majority of players can ever accomplish, and the Seasonal buffs are, to put it mildly, incredibly strong. While the buffs to Rend are strong, they combine wit many of these facets listed above to elevate Barb clears.

In other words, I am fairly certain this is not representative of real, actual clears that will be made the live server.

But what if I’m wrong?

We have for years now asked for meaningful, interesting buffs. And we have, at long last, received what we wanted. We are, finally, powerful–three (four if you count LOD) of our builds were buffed this patch, and each provides a distinct, interesting style of play. Barbs are excited about their class again, and the massive community effort to acquire buffs has reinvigorated an entire subsection of the game’s player base.

Simply put, even if I’m wrong and Barbs are ridiculously strong, it’s okay.

We’ve had the rug pulled out from under before with the Mortick’s debacle four years ago. We waited years to get buffs to outdated supporting legendaries. Two of our builds still rely on broken, gimmicky wall-charging, and one of class sets was literally broken since release. I think it’s safe to say that even if Barbs are incredibly strong for the upcoming Season, everything is going to be okay.


If, however, the developers decide that the current non-Season PTR clears require a nerf–and again, nerfs are not necessary–I ask that you consider a compromise.

Any nerf to our Rend damage will decrease our clear potential and increase the build’s reliance on frustrating, time-consuming fishing. Let’s cover the current items and potential damage caused by nerfs.

  • Ambo’s Pride: Any nerf to the Rend detonation mechanic will fundamentally cripple the build. The auto-cast Rend, while not essential, is not game-breaking.
  • Wrath of the Wastes: The amendment of Rend to the 6-piece bonus is essential for making the skill viable with dual-wielding and for making Rend’s damage, regardless of weapon, meaningful.
  • Lamentation: The additional Rend damage here is a welcome addition. It is, however, the only place a nerf could be applied without crippling or breaking the build.

As you can see, any nerf aside from Lamentation risks crippling the build, and even a small nerf to the belt will drastically reduce the build’s power. However, if a nerf is deemed necessary, I suggest a compromise: Whirlwind’s damage can be increased to compensate for this.

It’s important to remember that Whirlwind divides its damage over “ticks” and that the skill requires Dust Devils, Area Damage, and Bloodshed to deal significant damage. Therefore, any nerf to Rend damage requires a 10:1 buff ratio to Whirlwind. For example, if you were to lower Lamentation’s damage bonus from 200 to 150, Skull Grasp would have to be increased an additional 500%.

Again, to be perfectly, 100% clear: DO NOT NERF BARBS!

We are, finally, where we have longed to be–relevant, powerful, and fun! As top-ranked player Ulma points out, the current buffs not only make our most popular build powerful and fun, but it also reduces server strain and erases the game-breaking lag associated with the Whirlwind-centric build.


Whirl Wind is fine as is on the PTR, there’s no need to tone it down, finally barbs can be considered a dps class after this patch. Maybe this will even create a medium tier meta type 4 man surrounding this new WW playstyle, similar to the necro rats.


I would probably go a little higher for Remorseless. IK HOTA will be fun, but it’ll be completely overshadowed by the other builds imo. So I’d suggest buffing it even more tbh.


I agree that remorseless and fjord cutter seem a little undertuned.
WW barb with changes is the most fun ive had in YEARS of playing barb.
I can finally join a group and not be laughed out of it. The only way i can play barb in group now is zbarb and i hate it. The seasonal buff and people that have 10,000 paragon shouldnt change what is essentially a perfect ww build.
Skull grasp is fine and can still be used in early part of season,and honestly everyone is still testing what might be set up that is optimal.



It’s highly unlikely, but I wonder if finally increasing Immortal King 6-piece is an option?

My reasoning for thinking out loud about this:

  • Wastes is shifting to Rend damage which currently requires all 6 pieces, so Wastes isn’t effected
  • MotE has such a huge multiplier for its skills, so they’d still be best used in MotE
  • Increasing IK6 to get HOTA that last extra push would make sure R6 HOTA didn’t accidentally become too strong

It will be interesting to see how the PTR leaderboard shakes out. A solo barb has cleared 140.

I prefer to keep it the way it is. If a nerf is required, my preference is to reduce rend damage. The alternative as Ulmaguest has explained (#3 Rank solo barb in era leaderboard) is problematic. Please see his post for the reasons why.


Was he 9-10k Paragon? the average person wont be clearing that high.


I totally agree with this post. Now I wanna address the fact that these Youtuber’s are putting out videos on these new builds and are using there personal accounts and using Prime gear. The average person is not gonna have that gear straight out the gate. There PTR videos are not the standard I challenge them to use regular armor pieces non primal and non ancient and the thousands of paragon points they have that sway the decisions of nerfs vs buffs in the game.
STOP saying everything is OP when you are truly NOT testing the gear. Regular gear no paragon and nothing in the cube and then jump into a rift and earn it is proper testing not whats going on now.


he was 10k paragon with all primals that aint testing and he had to fish for the best clear.


The average person does not clear a 141 in the current era as a wizard either in the America region. There is only 1 player. In the entire world, there are only 5 clears above 141 in the current era for wizards. These top end clears in eras tend to be players with high paragons.


This is why I hate that they balance off of top clears on the PTR. The best players are not even close to average, they are massive outliers. Remember the CR about a year ago that was a UE MS based off of the best UE MS player? Only like 10 people were able to beat his time. These people should not be balanced off of.


WW is ok with rend I think. If ww buff comes with skull grasp, maybe the lags will kill the build. WW leaks only toughness but more toughness would destroy the remaining challange with this build. All in all WW is pretty fine in this kind of way: great damage, no lags, and have the challange at pushing: how to survive… (I’m hasetating a bit about my last thought and the don’t need nerf thing since I checked seasonal LB: there are 125+ clears with ~1.2k paragon and NO augments in gear. Someone cleared 131!)

IK remorsless need more damage. With IK I wasn’t able to clear 125 with some tries. With ww I cleared 128 and 130 was not done only because of toughness problems and needed really good rift for that (wich I hadn’t). So remorsless is at least 5 GR back to WW.

Permafrost barb is till really weak and the gamplay is quite struggling. I could manage 120 with that build. With some more push maybe 122-123 would have been reached so seismic slam barb is at least 7-8 gr level back to WW. And the gamplay need rework: with CC variant ancients should last until they die and need a group making ability.

I miss leapquke buff so much…:disappointed_relieved::disappointed_relieved::disappointed_relieved:

Is there a way to buff all runes of Seismic Slam except Rumble, and not just Permafrost?

I would like that the other runes (except Rumble) get some love as well.

Would it work to put a buff on another 1h Mighty Weapon like Night’s Reaping (or even on Fjord Cutter) that increases Seismic Slams damage and attack speed when the ‘Stagger’, ‘Shattered Ground’, ‘Strength from Earth’ or ‘Permafrost’ rune is equipped (so basically all runes except ‘Rumble’)?

That would not buff the MotE set further and has the advantage of not just buffing Permafrost.

Great take on things. Pretty much agree with all of it.


hope they see that those high clears are with 10k paragon and not even much higher than the highest clear with wizz which is more than 3k lower.
barb had nothing for such a long time i hope blizz don’t f*** it up and nerf things


Barbs more than deserve their time in the sun, they have been relegated to support for far too many years.


I would slightly nerf the baseline for the Rend damage, because simply having the set and the necessary items is too good. The build basically auto-clears T16 without even having to roll stats on gear, 0 Paragon, not even legendary gems. I would say that either through Lamentation or the 6pc needs to be toned down to like 8000% or something along these lines. It shouldnt be nerfed by ALOT, but i see its baseline damage output as too strong right now.

Fjordcutter and Remorseless need some more damage added to really make the builds more in line with WW

For dev : Just keep the buff as it is no need to adjust further. Barb deserve to have this you know. But If you had to make compromise the only makes sense is just to tweak the lamentation belt rend bonus damage leave others unchanged.

Wow the table guy is everywhere…

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To be fair, thats the norm for quite a few sets. It just feels off since now theres a Barb set that can do it too.


I played for a bit, got to P400ish. I tried many things, but does anyone know if using a slow weapon like furnace or something is good? We’re not using skullgrasp anymore so you can squeeze a broken promises in there.

Or is it just better to keep stacking crit? I suppose we could drop IAS now though to make room for it.