Old Tauren could have healed from fleshwound, can’t dig out poision when hits the bloodstream.
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I think we just need one expansion to deal with this.
Dragonfail will start like an appetizer and the next one will lean into it hard.
By the end of that expansion both factions are completely crossfaction and we end this nonsense.
And its not just the Alliance.
The Blood Elves have a big bone to pick with the silver covenant and Baine with the Taurajo survivors. Talanji with the Alliance and etc.
All these issues need to be talked about by the NPCs talking with each other, couple quests that maybe feed to a major patch in an expansion.
Maybe a few cinematics to heal destroyed lands and new characters being introduced.
Thats all we need. Just one expansion.
The worst thing we can do is keep ignoring it.
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All I’m getting from this thread is that we need more Draenei and Blood Elf stories.
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That assumes this is what Blizzard wants. I am not totally convince of this kumbaya future people seem to think will suddenly pop up. By its very nature factions wars are a quick way to drum up support for WoW.
Idc what Blizzard wants.
Blizzard has nearly destroyed this game with their dumb ideas.
Its time to actually address what the community and players want rather than what they want.
I am not saying I speak for everyone but the constant war crimes and feel bad themselves stories have been a joke for years.
They need to address it rather than run away from it for the 100th time.
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Everyone needs more Drae Baes in their life 
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Giving the visceral NEGATIVE to both faction wars. No it is definitely not
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Story of Draenei introducing Jed’hin to Azerothians as a legitimate competitive sport when?
Thinking about it…what sports DO other races have in this game? It kind of feels like Draenei are the only one, and that was because of RPers. Kul Tiran have equestrianism games.
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That would be fun. I could totally see Mag’har Orcs and Draenei challenging each other to fights of strength too 
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Worgen (retaking Gilneas finally?), Dwarf (how are the Bronzebeards and Dark Irons getting long?), Gnome (has Mechtorque recovered? Gnomregon retaken? Mechagon was decent though), Tauren (hunt for Magratha, repairing Cata damage to the Barrens, Baine finding a better spine), Goblins… y’know, as long as the goblins get several quests an expansion about using explosives to solve problems I think I’m okay with them not getting a race-specific expansion storyline.
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Ion mentioned that they want to do smaller more frequent patches and if this is the route they go, that could mean we get more flavor side content stories. We need so much more. You’re right, race specific expansion storylines don’t make for a good expansion. I don’t want to go into a debate on the Purge of Dalaran, but I do wanna say that those kind of storyline are what we need more of.
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I believe you of course, but I described the identity of the Horde (the way I see it as least) as :
If such description doesn’t ring any bell to you and you think this is a fantasy of mine, then I must assume that you didn’t play through many of the important Horde narratives, because this is brought up quite regularly. Here are some quotes that are intended to define that identity :
I’ll tell ya what de Horde is. De Horde that me an’ Thrall built. It be a family. When de whole world try ta put us down, da family come an’ pick us back up. (Vol’jin in Vol’jin : Shadows of the Horde)
The proud nations of the Horde are loosely joined in an alliance of convenience against a hostile world that would see them destroyed.
(Pandaren faction choice quest)
Misunderstood and cast aside, these diverse and powerful races strive to overcome their differences and unite as one in order to win freedom for their people and prosper in a land that has come to hate them.
In the Horde, action and strength are valued above diplomacy, and its leaders earn respect by the blade, wasting no time with politics. The brutality of the Horde’s champions is focused, giving a voice to those who fight for survival.
(Cataclysm promotion)
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I think she’s saying that the description isn’t accurate, and the Horde are just a bunch of evil savages.
I think the thing about that is, that is how the Horde views itself, but its not what they actually are. Which makes sense. Thrall is an outlier when it comes to most orcs, and this is primarily due to the fact that he was raised and educated by humans. He learned of Orc history and tradition from the old Horde Warcheif who is, in reality, a war criminal reminiscing about his glory days and the delusion of a noble shamanistic culture that had died with their old planet.
Using the image of Ogrim, again, a War criminal, carrying his weapon and armor, Thrall rallied the orcs who were rallying to the War Criminal Doomhammer Iconography rather than the young man of Thrall himself. Thrall then took them to Kalimdor, and preached the doctrine of a “New Horde” one returning to their shamanistic roots and condemns the sins of their past… All the while he, or more likely, the Orcish people, start naming places in this new land after the War Criminals of the past they claim to condemn.
Despite everything Thrall wanted to do, he was unable to stop slavery within the Horde. Unable to reel in the Warsong from skirmishing with the elves in Ashenvale, unable to properly teach Garrosh, presumably his Human-taught worldview and Garrosh’s Mag’har taught worldview not aligning, which is ultimately why Thrall’s Horde never became what he wanted it to be.
Then you have Garrosh lead the Horde to war, and even at the end, had a sizable following of loyalists, members of the Horde who WANTED war, who were tired of living in a desert and WANTED to conquer and take more fertile lands, and finally take the victory they lusted for since they walked through the Dark Portal.
Then you have the Iron Horde, showing that even without the Demonic influence, the Horde had the same goal. That their fate was not the produce of demonic manipulation but willing choices.
Then you have Sylvanas, who even at her end, still had a sizable following of Loyalist, members of the Horde who WANTED war. Who KNEW what was done at Teldrassil and they relished in it, and that is true for the player base as well.
You have what the Horde SAYS it is… A collection of outcasts just fighting to survive. Then you have what the Horde actually is… That they are not the ones misunderstood, being hunted down, fighting to survive a world that would see them destroyed. Rather, the world has repeatedly fought to survive them, time and time again.
Didnt you see the fine print under Alliance that says Empire of Stormwind, lead by the Wrynn Dynasty
That is the prime difficulty the Orcs have to deal with : they want to reclaim their past legacy, a legacy that’s forever tainted by the Demonic corruption and that had been largely abandoned due to the lethargy they suffered in the internment camps, but one that makes them proud nonetheless. Their history being what it is, there will always be a degree of ambivalence in what constitutes their identity. Hence why they do honor the memory of shady yet heroic figures ; in some way the duality in someone like Grommash and Orgrim perfectly represents what it means to be an Orc today. Doesn’t make them evil.
But the AU Mag’har were manipulated ; not by Demons, sure, but by Garrosh. None of what happened in WoD indicates that the Horde is bloodthirsty by nature. Proof of that is that after we left AU Draenor, as far as we know, they lived in peace with the Draenei until the latter went loco.
Sizeable ? I doubt that. Only the Forsaken and the Mag’har largely sided with her, and for the Mag’har, they mostly did so because they didn’t have a clue of who she was and what was going on. By all accounts, Sylvanas loyalists were a minority.
Completely unrelated I think. The playerbase, myself included, mostly sided with Sylvanas because she just feels cool to side with. As I said in another thread, in BfA, siding with Sylvanas was wrong, but it felt right ; siding with Saurfang and Baine was right, but it felt wrong. Doesn’t have anything to do with justifying her actions
I’d rather put it that way : that is how the Horde should be, because that’s how it’s sold to the players, but that’s not what is reflected in the narratives, because the writing is bad.
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The problem with the Cata/MoP, WOD, and BFA trilogy is that, good intentions aside, it’s really easy to conclude that orcs (and most of the rest of the Horde) would cheerfully follow Evil-Mustache-agosh The Kitten Throttler for half a used tootsie pop and a third of a “convincing” reason.
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is “the Alliance are bad” not a valid enough reason? The Alliance did put baby pandaren in a chain gang to push stone, kept orcs in concentration camps and a whole laundry list of other war crimes. The problem with the Alliance is it’s war crimes are conveniently placed racist outliers like Garithos and Rogers so it doesn’t count.
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I bring it moreso to outline the mindset of the orcs today. They still admire the War criminals of their past. There is still an admiration of them and a yearning for the glory days when they brought the Alliance to it’s knees.
It is just one of many examples of Orcish wanderlust for conquest, and in particular, an example that can’t be written off as “Demon influence”
Considering the Anduin was not convinced they could take Ogrimamr, that the losses would be extremely high during an assault.
“Enough for one final assault. If that fails, we’re finished”
I think there were far more Sylvanas Loyalists than you think.
Yeah, genocide and the utter humiliation of a whole subcategory of the player base is hella rad…
The fact that it felt right to you proved my point.
But its not… Every time we see it sold that way, it is from the perspective of a Horde character. But as players, we can look at their actions objectively and see that their perceptions of themselves is wrong.
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Now now, I’m sure it will be retconned into those Alliance people secretly having been Sylvanas herself, who did that for the Jailer.
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