"""Ysera isn't Nelf content"""

Lore Story Forum
1036

Mostly because that has been the established lore for the Horde since the beginning. They were villains before Warcraft 3, and in Warcraft 3 Thrall was reforming the Horde with the Tauren being the cultural and moral foundation, connected by the mutual shamanistic tradition of orcs and Tauren.

Even then the Orcs threatened to return to their Demon Masters. Even in Warcraft 3, the Horde had a civil war which the Alliance had to assist them to resolve.

That is the identity of the Horde and always has been.

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1037

I don’t think that’s what happened in Warcraft 3.

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1038

A large Horde caravan slowly made it’s way up the slopes of Mt Hyjal, wooden wheels creaking and groaning under it’s heavy load. Then, the shadows of the trees on either side of the road seemed to pull free from their sources and a pair of fully armed and armored Sentinels manifested, pointing their three-pointed throwing glaives at the caravan.

“Hold, Horde! You dare to entire sacred Night elf territory? After all you’ve done, you actually think we’d let you in alive, let alone unchallenged?”

The orc driving the forward wagon looked down at them, and blinked his eyes, first one, then the other, as his brain slowly processed the new information they were sending him. Spitting out the rock he had been chewing on, he rose up in his seat to speak. “Hellos, nelves! Me hurd yoo growering nu tree, after we burnted down your old one! My sorry!” he exclaimed with what seemed like genuine regret.

The Sentinels shifted uneasily. He appeared harmless enough by orcish standards, but still… Their leader eyed the cart, with it’s large rough-cut tarp over the top, covering a mound of some unidentified material. “What do you carry on your carts, orc? Know that we will not let you past without being allowed to search it first, assuming that we allow you to pass at all, and WILL kill you if you try to stop us from doing so!”

The orc merely nodded his head with an excess of enthusiasm, spittle flying everywhere as he did so. “It okay! Me bring something to help grows nu tree! Fresh from Mulgore, many taurenens donated!”

A Sentinels lowered her weapons slightly. She started to speak, and then the wind shifted, blowing from behind the carts and towards them. “Tauren donated whaaAAAAAAGH OH SWEET ELUNE!” She dropped her weapon and clutched at her face, desperately trying to prevent her own nose from fleeing via ripping itself free from her body. Her sisters were all in similar straits, falling back and landing hard on their petite purple rumps, screaming and retching.

The orc caravan driver turned and torn the tarp away, revealing a huge pile of green-brown sludge. “Fertilizer! For tree!” he said happily.

Sadly, the gift was not apricated, and nothing the Horde seemed to try to do to make up for the burning of Teldrassil, not the offer of free fertilizer, nor many other similar offers, ever placated the Alliance in general and Night elves in particular’s hatred for the other faction.

1039

Yes, and maybe it could have been someone who made more sense.

6 Likes
1040

Grom drank the Demon Blood, he and his Warsong clan betrayed the Horde and served the Burning Legion. Thrall, alongside Carine and Jaina confronted him at Demonfall Canyon, captured him and managed to purify him due to the combined efforts of Horde Shaman and Alliance Priests.

1041

I am talking about the fact that in the Story the Horde should face the consequences and answer for burning babies alive and then supporting Sylvanas for years until she tried to kill them.

This needs to be addressed.
And so does the justified Alliance reaction towards the Horde.

The new cross faction dragonfail content should have NPCs talk about these things.
And respond to these issues but as far as I can see we are back to our collective amnesia and we have to feel sorry for Dragonmaw war criminal.

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1042

Yeah cool but this isn’t what it’s supposed to be in WoW, since it would make the Alliance vs Horde dichotomy come down to a Good vs Evil dichotomy, which is contrary to the initial premise of the game.

It isn’t. At least it isn’t to me and I’m pretty sure it isn’t to most of the Horde fans in this thread. Outcast races who are banding together in order to build themselves a place in the world after they lost that place, and are willing to fight to the death for the survival of their kind ; that is what the identity of the Horde is in WoW. That identity was reminded in the Pandaren starting scenario by the way.
A deep-down evil faction that’s always on the verge of going back to full genocidal mode ? I never signed up for this. This is alien to me.

8 Likes
1043

Story wise? No it doesn’t. We don’t need to drag horde players through the mud YET AGAIN, just so the game and alliance players can moralize on why the horde and its players suck for choices they had no control over.

Most of us want to MOVE AWAY from this type of storytelling, certain people just want to keep rehashing it for some reason

6 Likes
1044

Yes we do.
These stories need to be properly addressed and explores.

And this is where I think we will never agree on.
The story must fully explore and address all the narrative issued.

Ignoring Orcs not having a leader is bad.
It should be fixed.
And while we are at it this leader needs to explain where the F they were when his companions were doing Baby BBQ and what he is going to do to answer for it.

They will suck infinitely worse for ignoring the disgusting things the writers made them do.
Ignoring it is far far worse.

Unless we are embracing the Horde is evil story. If that is the desired intent then by all means lets lean into it.
Evil Horde Empire of Evil electric boogaloo 3? Coming to an expansion near you.

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1045

Isn’t it? Warcraft three is essentially the prequel to WoW. Going into WoW, one should expect what has been established by the games that preceded it.

Then perhaps they chose the wrong faction… If what you want from the Horde doesn’t match how they have been established in their foundational story.

It’s weird and a bit entitled to expect the Horde to change to meet what you, specifically, especially when there are just as many people who like what the Horde is, or likes the earlier, more villainous iteration of the Horde. And your version of the Horde is a version that has never existed.

1046

Oh, that’s what you mean. I would have never called that a civil war though.

1047

The whole kaldorei thing has already been addressed in Ardenweald. It’s over and people need to get over it. We don’t want to keep being reminded of what happened.

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1048

It has not even begun to be addressed.

The Horde.
And its leaders who stood by TWO wow fascist overlords.
And the survival of the NEs for being close to these genocide happy monsters needs to be addressed.

3 Likes
1049

Guess you never played Horde in WoW then

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1050

not so much but…let suprise yourself.

1051

Big Orc hits old Tauren with Axe. It must have been the poison that killed him.

1052

I mean…we did that in Shadowlands, though.
All my horde characters who joined the Night Fae covenant have been thoroughly chastised by Shandris and Tyrande ( even though none of them actually participated in the events that led to the Burning ) and Sylvanas was brought to justice, no matter if you like the judgement or not.
I did the walk of shame with her several times and man, enough is enough.

Horde players don’t pay for this game to have the writers terrible decisions be rubbed in their faces forever. It seems like DF intends to strike a more conciliatory tone and I’m fine with that for a change.

9 Likes
1053

I am not talking about players.
None of this is about the players being made to answer but the NPCs, the larger political picture between races and factions.

I want Lorthermar to effing explain himself for why he not only supported Garrosh but Sylvanas too.
Why in Siege of Lordearon he was not fighting with Alliance to bring Sylvanas to justice.

BFA did a lot of harm but if Blizzard takes the time and explores these events, what it meant to the NPCs from Lorthermar to Grunt #17 then we can have some actual healing of the story.

6 Likes
1054

I played an orc warrior and goblin Warlock for some time. Not as much as I played my Nelf but I put white a bit of time into each of them, and I have had a lot of Horde alts over the years.

1055

Ah, I see, and I’m fine with that. I’d say we had that to an extent with the Genn/Lor’themar dialogue. I’m okay with our leaders taking responsibility and I wouldn’t mind to see more of that.
But the players must be allowed to move on someday.

5 Likes