You mean the Mag’har didn’t tell us there were any wars. But in order to do that, they would have to perceive that they were doing something wrong by slaughtering their neighbors.
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Oh, great, that makes it SO much better!
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We’re going to have to agree to disagree because you strawman the situation as being nothing more than “join our religion or die” and I say that’s an oversimplification of the situation.
I’m REALLY trying to refrain from calling Thadeus a moron or a troll, because part of me is starting to have trouble believing he’s seriously going to defend Yrel and Xe’ra this hard.
Thadeus, serious question: if someone told you that you had to join their religion either willingly or forcibly (and mind you forcibly generally gets rid of that pesky free will thing), or accept death as the alternative, how would you react?
None of this “Well, your opinion is…” nonsense. It’s a straight question. Answer it.
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I am not saying Yrel is right, but I think we got a bit more going on then “forcing religion”.
First off the Light to the Draenei is not really a religion how other races worship the Light. Light to them is literally just the way of life, they seek to be one with it, not really worship it.
Second I think its safe to say with the events of WoD they kinda had a pretty good reason for making sure that did not happen again. I mean hell…we are talking about the same Orcs who proved that they dont need to be “”“tricked”"" by the Legion to do what they did.
Yrel was wrong in the sense that starting war is always wrong, however she has some pretty solid backing reasons that are right. Over all Yrel is evil but not as evil as the Iron Horde was based on intentions alone.
As I mentioned above, the Draenei dont look at the Light as there religion. The war was a bit more then that.
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I never defended Xe’ra, I just said she wasn’t mind-controlling Illidan by Lightforging him, and I acknowledged she was doing it by force.
There’s also a difference between forcing someone to do something against their will and removing their capability for free will. When I said Lightforing doesn’t take away free will, I meant the latter.
Side note, interesting you use joining a religion as an example when there have also been non-religious people who’ve tried to force people to leave all religion on pain of death.
To answer your question… assuming that it actually involves removing the capacity for free will like the Ludovico Technique… I can’t answer your question yet since I don’t know anything about this hypothetical religion you’ve citing.
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I mean, the book we loot from one of Yrel’s exarchs (which was written by Yrel, or at least a transcription of her words, since she’s High Exarch there) suggests the orcs were likely living in some kind of harmony before the Light Nation attacked.
https://www.wowhead.com/item=162025/sermon-of-the-high-exarch
Yrel is literally thinking light makes right.
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You can reserve that right, just as I reserve the right to say “I told you so” to you if Yrel’s faction prove to be something more or besides villains out to subjugate Azeroth or it’s people. fyi I considered flagging you for name-calling, but I didn’t.
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watch blizzard give nerzuul, sylvanas, arthas, and kael thas a redemption… and then paint yrel as the bad guy
blizzards writers have no ****ing clue what they are doing… and i swear they sympathize with genocidal maniacs
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Have you done the quest for the Mag’har Orcs yet ?
I’m guessing not . Well AU Grom Hellscream has a son who joins Yrel s band of fanatics and Before her and Grom fight buying time for the remaining Mag’har to get to Azeroth , Yrel actually refers to Grom as OLD Friend.
She became a fanatic and it didn’t matter what race it was if they didn’t join they were killed.
Know all your facts first.
So 1 : THere are Mag’har in her army it is not just an army of Draenei.
2: At some point even after what happened with the iron horde and her going all light crazy her and Grom the leader of the iron horde became friends.
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…You know…
All the info we have on Yrel is from the Mag’har Orcs…
We technically dont know the other side of the story about the start of the war…
Just something to think about. Not sure how good the word of a group of people who have tried genocide though out different time lines is >.>
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If you’d read what I’d wrote, you’d know I’m aware of all this, especially since I cited alt-Durotan’s daughter Geya’rah.
I think Yrel being friends with Grom made no sense, especially given his role in the death of her sister Samaara (Grom egged Ner’zhul on to find a weapon for the Iron Horde if he didn’t want the Shadowmoon clan to suffer, as a result Ner’zhul did a mass sacrifice to corrupt a Naaru - including Samaara. Grom also had no qualms about Ner’zhul’s methods or results).
Yrel’s “Lightbound” group consists of Draenei, Mag’har and Ogres. Draenei joined willingly. Mag’har joined willingly or being forced through unspecified means and the Ogres joined the Draenei to be on the winning side.
Know all your facts first.
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Not any worse then your fan theory that is this thread
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you literally skipping over the fact she calls the orcs allies. Yrel has moved on, she realized they were being controlled but now wants to put them under the naruu’s thumb.
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Draeneis get genocide in the original draenor and we get “fur the hurdee pride”
Draeneis defend themselves in the alternative draenor, “ZOMG FANATICAL ZEALOTS CRAZY GOAT PEOPLE”
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My thoughts exactly. Making Yrel a one-dimensional bad guy would be a stupid, unfair and overdone. If they make Yrel a villain and give her a redemption arc, that would be great, especially if they can redeem her without making her give up the Light completely - that would be masterful writing.
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As people should be. I mean he’s got a pretty fanatical side to him.
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Some disparate ogre clans joined, mainly out of fear that the Mag’har couldn’t protect them, but it was far from all. We actually brought a fair number of Gorian ogres back with us.
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I did kind of leave that point unaddressed. I will rectify this, because the problem is this story arc seems to want to pretend the Iron Horde never happened and that the Draenei and Orcs simply worked together against the Legion (who were on alt-Draenor through the actions of certain Orcs).
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And that right there is why you are absolutely failing this debate. Does it really matter that much? Bottom line: you’re being told that everything you ever believed is wrong and that you must adapt to their way of life. If you refuse, they’ll force you into their doctrine in a manner that takes away your free will. If you fight back or are deemed too dangerous to live, they will kill you.
If it absolutely comes down to it, pick a real world religion/belief set that is the polar opposite of whatever it is you believe and go from there. How would you react to that?
Better yet, you want a real world parallel? How about the forced conversions that Europeans attempted on various groups as they settled the New World? What’s your opinion on that?
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