I mean sure, it feels bad, but I’m pretty sure guilds already do that anyways?
To me it’s like arguing that it’s bad because people are going to do things that they’ve been doing for like a decade now, as if it’s a new problem.
If covenant abilities were talents instead, you’d only have to have a tome and swap as needed, not drop out of the raid for someone else.
It might not really matter a lot of Blizz nails the balance, but history tells us it’s going to be a problem because they can’t.
Blizz hasn’t been able to balance anything in wow since Nov. 23, 2004
1 Like
I dislike the argument of “history tells us they can’t do that” because if we went purely by that idea then nothing would actually change from expansion to expansion. I don’t mind Covenant abilities or what they end up as at launch or a bit further down the line or anything. What I mind more than anything is people making argument against it as if the problems it might bring are new ones.
I’ve spoken enough in detail about it on here with my other character, so I’m not going to go over all of my argument again. Suffice it to say, people are acting like Covenants will bring problems to the game, when those problems already exist and have existed for a long time. It very much strikes me as just finding something to blame instead of acknowledging the actual genuine issue itself, because in this case it extends past Covenants themselves. Do they maybe amplify the problem? Sure, but making Covenants open won’t actually solve the underlying problem.
If Covenants are intended to be like “sub-classes” for people, then getting swapped out for someone else because your choice underperforms is the same as getting swapped out because your class itself underperforms. As a matter of fact, that’s part of why I’m worried about playing a Mage as my main for Shadowlands, hence why I started working on getting my Paladin set back up.
Thank you for starting this thread. It was on my mind a lot recently with the discussion swirling on every WoW forum and comment sections on various websites.
The truth is that covenants are being built up by Blizz to be the central theme of shadowlands and that is something Blizz can’t take back unless they admit they were wrong to build so much around borrowed power.
Ya not really.
The Majority of the PVP community wants Flying gone. The PVP community is about the same size as the community that complains about PF. The Majority, truly doesnt really care.
And at the end of the day, despite their threats, neither camp will ever leave the game over it.
No it’s not rofl and no most of the pvp community doesn’t care. Very few people bother with world pvp anymore. Also a lot of pro flyers left already.
Then I’ll go through the painful grind of switching. I wish it wasn’t so, but there’s nothing I can do about it.
“Very few people bother with WPVP”
LOLOL. Ya no. That is completely and utterly false. If you dont turn WPVP on, thats fine, doesnt not mean that a very very large portion of players dont. They do, Blizzard said multiple times that they were astonished by the amount of people that actually use WM, despite playing on PVE servers.
The few times, I have had to turn WM off, the shards were dead as a doornail.
When I Pug, usually out of a group of 25-30 people, 2-3 will have WM off. It was that way when PF wasnt out, and its still that way now.
Granted at this time, most folks just fly past WPVP except for their CTAs. However thats because of Flying, without flying that would change.
1 Like
As someone who is generally against flying, my argument is that it tends to ruin the fun of actually exploring zones and traveling across them.
That being said, the game would be boring as hell when leveling alts or getting to places you’ve already been if the only form of quick transports you had were specific portals and flight paths. Flying is great for convenience, but bad for exploration. That’s why I like Pathfinder a lot, despite the rep grinds.
1 Like
Yeah they use warmode because if you are horde it’s a free permanent boost lol
World PVP died with the sanitized version of warmode.
When I play on Ally, there numbers are about the same.
There is just less Alliance players, that do end game content at all, and those people tend to have WM off. The majority of End Game players, play with WM on. Its far from dead. Allys still have 40 man raids, raiding horde citys for no reason, Naj is lit all the time for the event, its not dead.
Shadowlands will see it restored to glory without flying. WM is a free boost with flying, I have literally seen Assault guides where they say “Do all the quests with WM off and then turn it on and turn in, and turn it back off” that also is not helping.
As someone who spends at least 40% of my Time WPVPing, I dont find it dead, I find flying killing it however. ESPECIALLY with the bounty system. The fact that the other side Can fly above and wait till there is 20 of them to come down is absurd and trash gameplay. This is exact why flying needs to go, it ruins content.
If anything they are trying to bring back WPVP even more, with the Maw, and thats going to a be a BLAST! When you lose loot to dying, oh boi the tears are going to be Epic! Hopefully they will let us loot said Resources, that would make it REALLY GOOD!
Expansion after expansion they’ve launched really broken systems that player’s gave extensive feedback against. People would like them to get it right, but nobody’s betting their longboi on it. That’s blizz’s problem to fix.
People are arguing against it because of the bad history. We are trying to avoid the same old problems.
Yes and we’re trying to get this expac to not carry them over.
Put another way, those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it.
2 Likes
They aren’t under a misunderstanding. They are being willfully ignorant. Fools will be fools.
1 Like
Naj is only lit up when Ruin does their invade thing and again there is a gameplay benefit to that. Turn off flying in warmode only and get rid of pathfinder I’m fine with that.
New Home is under attack every single time I go there, not just during the event.
Now I left at the start of 8.2 and WM was way more popping back then, but there is still plenty of action. However flying kills alot of it.
I am fully down with WM disabling flying, the XP/Loot Bonus being 100% and 150% respectively to make up for it. That will sort the issue out naturally and remove a need for PF.
And is precisely where you are wrong.
Classes will have 5-10% variations.
Specs will have 5-10% variations. Covenants will have 5-10% variations. Soulbinds and Conduits will have 5-10% variations.
Choosing poorly can easily be a 40%+ difference in performance. And that’s assuming it’s only 5-10% difference.
There is no question that people will be excluded based on covenant choice. However, depending on how easy it is to see covenant choice, this rejection may be broadstream or limited to higher end groups.
1 Like
What I meant by “those problems already exist and have existed for a long time” is that they are underlying and can’t be fixed by solving an issue with a new system. You can’t prevent a problem when that problem has existed for years. If Covenants become entirely open for people to switch around as they want, then people are going to get swapped out or declined from groups because they play a specific class or spec. Changing Covenants as they are now literally will not solve the problem, and that’s my entire point.
I’m not saying some of the decisions with Covenants themselves aren’t bad or don’t have issues or anything, I’m saying that people keep attributing problems to them when those same problems have existed for ages, and they act like it’s a new problem that Covenants are going to bring to the game, and they act like opening up Covenants will solve those problems completely. That’s the idea I get from every thread regarding the subject on these forums.
I never even said people aren’t allowed to argue what they want, because if I had it would have been extremely hypocritical of me. I have my own views on it as a whole, and I’m simply voicing them just the same as everyone else. I specifically don’t like the argument of “history tells us they can’t do that” because it implies that history will always repeat itself with this, thus meaning that if people are arguing against it because of the bad history, they would be doing so knowing full and well that their arguments won’t make any sort of difference. From what I have seen from Blizzard regarding Shadowlands thus far, they are listening to feedback, and they are making changes based on it, for good or ill.
Being of the mindset that they will always repeat history is pessimistic. And having that mindset on top of constantly making the same arguments, especially if you believe they won’t make a difference, is nothing more than a waste of time and energy. In any case, I think I’ve said all I wanted to say for now.
I still think the best option here is to trivialize the need for ‘best’ in parties by just removing the time limit and make it based on wipes the party had during the dungeon.
1 Like