The single biggest thing WoW’s endgame that doesn’t work in it’s favor is that almost all other MP games now are play and go. WoW is not.
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I’m talking about Torghast farming. Conduit farming. Renown (lesser extent now) farming to unlock your soulbind abilities. All those things are chores keeping players from enjoying the actual content.
No, those things you listed as chores getting in the way of the real content is the real content for people who don’t care about raids, pvp, and M+
Wrong, you need to do all those things in order to get anywhere in the three pillars of end game. Those chores aren’t for the “casual” players. They’re barriers to entry into end game content.
Having nothing to do after hitting level cap other than the “pillars” is obsolete, shortsighted design that is basically done and over with.
And you think the next step to that is to stretch out one grind into three different grinds instead of finding new ways to keep players entertained?
Things like renown/AP, soul ash, etc., don’t do anything unique or special. All it does is take something that was once simple and satisfying, and turn it into something that’s long, tedious, and void of substance.
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Oh yea the game was so much less successful when that was the case. Oh wait…
Perspective is a funny thing.
If someone asked me to describe the M+ system to them, this is exactly how I would word it.
Also complaining about grinds in MMOs is like complaining about rain in Seattle. I’d rather grind Korthia and Torghast than grind io or arena rating.
For a 17 year old game with way more competition than it used to have, I’d say it’s chugging along alright still.
Denial is strong with this one.
No, you’re totally right. The game is in its final stages. They’ll be announcing when they shut off the servers permanently any day now…
In other MMOs, there is an eventual end to that grind.
In WoW, that grind never stops even after you max out your item level because that’s all there is.
You’re talking about something that’s killing the game as if it’s good for it. Quit acting ignorant and understand that the direction this game is going is not better design. It’s poor design and everyone sees it.
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Oh no, don’t worry. Wow will be full of people with their head buried in the sand just like you. You’ll have a game and forum full of Clarks.
Which ones? None of the ones I’ve played. Hell, New World just came out a little over two months ago and they are already raising the gear score cap after players just spent all that time reaching it.
The only people that are complaining about the current design are raid loggers, and people who want multiple mains (who are we kidding trying to call them alts) that they can switch out on a whim to whatever the fotm classes are so they can have an easier time in whatever raid, M+, or arena they are trying to do.
FFXIV
ESO
OSRS
New World
All of these have a grind, but they eventually stop and the game is supported by other activities beyond pushing higher M+ and raid logging. Do you think players spend hours on FFXIV pushing savage and ultimate? The developer supports the game and the player’s interests by focusing on all avenues of content, and the game is so much better for it.
Don’t want to raid log? No worries, you can also do crafting, player housing, golden saucer, glamour, and gathering. All of this is considered endgame content in addition to PvP and raids.
So when you insinuate that tedious power grinds are the only way to keep players engaged, you’re completely ignorant to a world that exists outside WoW’s primitive understanding of what endgame means.
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Yeah, this guy is obviously a troll or a dev in white.
No one can be this much of a blizz shill.
So many excuses for the current terrible state of the game and development.
Get back to your cubby, or leave. You aren’t helping. You are just making your masters look worse.
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The guy was enjoying himself and working hard at it until he had a quit moment. This game is chock full of quit moments that drive away customers.
“Hey,” you say, "The game doesn’t need those people’. I would say that not only does the game need a massive number of players to remain profitable, he’s the exact sort of player they should really want.
I’m not sure what your objective is in continuing to misrepresent what I am saying. I just think it’s bizarre and bad for the game that they think they’re designing it to be welcoming to new players, and doing the opposite.
I get that you place no value in a strong or stable playerbase and don’t have any interest in highly motivated new players continuing to play the game.
What, the drama YOU are creating, the flames YOU are fanning?
Have a quit moment. Take two, take many. Each one represents the tip of the iceberg, and is responsible for a large number of players saying to themselves, “I’m done with this game forever.” The games with the fewest quit moments are the most successful.
It’s not up to me to come up with creative solutions to problems they have created. They seem to have a complete lack of understanding about why new players have come to the game, how they play, and how any part of the game affects them. They seem to be confused that so many players have left what they thought was a perfectly designed game that would be very popular. There are some clues in this video. If they care, but it still appears they are developing the game as a vanity project.
It’s like you completely ignored what I wrote. It took players there two months of grinding to max out their gear score and the developers there are about to raise the cap to make them grind some more. A brand new game that is only two months old.
You can do crafting and gathering here, glamor is transmog, player housing is out of reach for most average players, and we could use a gold saucer type zone here, would be nice.
Tedious power grinds, which are raids, M+, and arenas aren’t the only way to keep players engaged which is why I’m glad there is more to do than just that.
Yeah, much better to be a mindless drone, “blizz bad, WoW bad” without an original thought or idea in your head… 
We’ve told you why and you do nothing but bury your head and pretend everything is fine.
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I read what you said, and I understand that there is a power grind. However, as I pointed out, it’s not the only thing you can do. Every game I listed gets its power cap raised every patch but the point is that the developers aren’t keeping the players on these games on a perpetual cycle that never ends. New World game is supported by other activities.
Your example is irrelevant.
And they are utterly useless and haven’t played a major part in the game’s design philosophy for quite some time, whereas crafting and gathering in FFXIV is much more fleshed out, has a purpose, and is its own game entirely. I know some people who play FFXIV just to do crafting and gathering. I don’t know anyone in WoW who has actually spent a significant chunk of recent play time delving into professions because they haven’t been adequately updated for a bit.
The fact is that it’s still there and can be accessed, and there are other avenues of player housing that are cheaper and more accessible than the plots of land most people go for.
Like what? Mount farming? Something that isn’t really a substantial activity and is only complementary to the other content in the game?
Keep on shilling. I’m sure it’ll work out in the end when Blizzard gives up on WoW.
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I agree with you, but here’s the problem. Often times, new people are recruited by seasoned veterans. The veterans hype up the game to the point the newbie wants to play, but can’t play with their friends because the level/phasing gap. Not everyone is willing to pay for a 60 boost, so they play a little and end up quitting. That’s a big problem and a lot of revenue being lost. I know for a fact this happens, as I’ve recruited a few people that don’t play anymore. Even when I created a character along side them to level with them, the daunting task of leveling to 60, gearing up, THEN being able to play the same content as your friend is just too much.
For those of us who’ve played a while, making an alt and doing the whole grind isn’t that big of a deal, but for new players or those returning after many years, it’s a huge undertaking. Endgame, whether it’s raiding, M+, or PvP is the game. It sucks, too, because the leveling part is often the more fun content.