Yes, you don’t like that you can’t hit level cap and just spam dungeons and arenas and think the game is bad because of that. I disagree. Seeing as how we probably aren’t going to see eye to eye on this, there really isn’t much of a reason to continue to argue the point.
You could not be more wrong. What keeps these games going year after year and what keeps the people coming back year after year is the perpetual cycle that never ends and I will prove it. Pick any MMO off your list, pick a character and class. Level it up to cap and get your BiS for every item. Log off for two years and come back and see if those items are still BiS. There will always be new power, new levels, new gear to grind.
So are you just typically this incapable of reading?
Did I say, at any point, that power grinds don’t exist in these games? Did I say that power grinds don’t matter? Of course power grinds matter, but since your reading comprehension is that of a fifth grader, I’ll go ahead and spell it out for you once more:
Power grinds aren’t the only things that keep players playing in these other games. Once they’ve finished that power grind, they can move onto something else and aren’t railroaded into doing the same thing ad nauseam until the next patch.
It’s a matter of choice, and Blizzard has little in the way of choice for endgame content. On top of that, their power grind is split into four different grinds instead of being one, simply straightforward grind. You either do the grinds they expect you to do, or you don’t play the game at all.
It could just be that you are incapable of making a coherent argument. So WoW is the only mmo that there is no end to the power grind. You just have to do it forever, there is no end and you can never move on to do anything else because there is little in endgame content. Power grinds are the only thing keeping players in this game because there is nothing else to do but that. And this only applies to WoW and no other mmos.
Here, let me invalidate your entire thesis right now. Some people here do nothing but pet battles. Some do nothing but sit in goldshire and “rp” all day. What absolute nonsense are you on about right now?
You try to make this point by comparing it to new world, (Which I just recently spent two months playing btw) a game with zero raids, 1 battleground, 2 endgame dungeons, and the only endgame activities are grind gear score, pvp, or craft.
You must be joking.
If you don’t like the game, just say you don’t like the game. Don’t try to make your point by comparing it to other games because you are terrible at it.
See, that’s where you’re wrong. These people play MMOs or have in the past at relatively high levels. They know what MMOs are all about and are fans. Even the ones boosting just find the gear grind daunting just to get to current levels and have fun with their friends.
Had one, in BfA I wasn’t enjoying the game and quit for a year. Then came back just before Shadowlands, and the game was still here.
Right now the game is pretty stale, so I’ve been playing Classic, so I guess I’m on my second moment.
But I am also not ignoring what’s been happening at Blizzard. They kinda have a few real world problems to work out before they can refocus on the game, it’s understandable the game is suffering.
Shadowlands is gonna suck for those that don’t like it till it’s end. Next expansion you might get exactly what you think the game needs. Only time will tell.
But you do need to remember one thing, it’s just a game. If it makes it, bully. If they drive it in the ground, oh well time to move on.
templates could fix this give everyone the same stats for pvp like other games but everyone from pvp cried about templates its like no matter what blizz does those same people will cry about the next thing. even tho its small groups of people crying they just cry really loud to make you hear them.
Then your anecdotes are rare circumstances. Because I don’t see droves of MMORPG players who quit because leveling was “daunting.” Old Republic was similar in its leveling and gearing methods. As was Rift back in its day. Same with Wildstar and ESO and ArcheAge and Aion.
There’s nothing wrong with wanting to play a different style of game that doesn’t have leveling or gearing requirements like MMOPRGs do. But to say that “many people” who play other MMORPGs found leveling and gearing daunting? I’m sorry, but I’m calling shenanigans. That sounds more like using anecdotes to push a narrative.
I think we agree that the issue here is the existence of so many systems and how they’re more of a pain than helpful. I think we also may agree that max level should be giving us new abilities and talents due to leveling and not some convoluted system. And I think we agree as well that all of these other silly things like Conduits and Soulbinds were just even more ridiculous to add.
So I agree that hitting max level and having a boatload of dumb systems to work through is terrible design. But I don’t agree that many high end MMORPG players from other games found leveling and gearing a daunting task.
New expansions are the perfect time for people to join the game. Especially if they boost a character to be on the same level as everyone else, gear not withstanding.
You don’t have to do it forever, but not pushing M+ and raid logging means you are potentially cutting the majority of substantial content this game actually offers, which is my point. You either do the content Blizzard dictates you do, or you simply just don’t play the game.
And you know what? That’s great! But not everyone RPs, and pet battles were added a decade ago + it’s not exactly updated outside of adding a couple new trainers to face off against in new zones.
Instead of reaching for examples of content that exist outside of power grinds, M+ and raid logging, ask yourself why WoW, a game that touted 12.5 million subscribers, is now dwindling well below 2 million, with a significant majority of those players being raid and key loggers.
Ask yourself why games like FFXIV are seeing subscription spikes during times in which no content for the game is being released, or why people don’t unsubscribe simply because they’ve hit their max power level in the game.
Can you not claim and build settlements in New World? That seems like a very substantial activity that exists outside of power grinding.
I’ve been playing WoW for 15+ years. I love this game more than anyone could possibly imagine, which is why I’m being heavily critical of it.
If it continues down this design path, it will continue to alienate both existing and new players alike, growth will eventually stop, and the game will cease to be relevant as an MMORPG. It won’t disappear, but it’ll definitely go into maintenance mode and no longer be supported and updated.
No amount of shilling on your end is going to help it. Why you insist on defending it is beyond me, especially when all signs indicate it’s failing on all fronts in both content and player retainment, two things that are VITAL for a game of its stature.
This is honestly the crux of the situation. Back in pre-Legion days, once you hit level cap, you didn’t have any other grinds except gearing. You played and geared for the next level. You could jump in feet first and have fun. Now, new players have covenant campaigns, Korthia campaigns, the Conduit grind, The Maw grind, AND the gear grind. Not to mention the fact that they don’t have any types of boosts to help with that stuff if they didn’t already do it all like we have. They can’t even start getting renown until level 60 when they choose a covenant. That’s waaaay more than should be.
Sorry, this is just not compelling. You can say this about any mmo. You do the content that is offered to you or you do nothing.
Old age and more competition are the two most significant factors. Every form of media has a peak popularity point and then it plateaus, then declines. Why do popular tv shows eventually get canceled? Why don’t they just keep making them forever?
Guilds can own towns in the game and they can upgrade them, which isn’t exactly the same as building it.
Other guilds can, through a series of repeatable pvp quests, eventually push the territory into conflict and declare war to try and take the town. This is just a large pvp battle but think of pvp here and just in general, do you go in underleveled and undergeared? No, pvp is very much power grinding.
I also have been playing a long time. My lifestyle and the way I approach the game is vastly different now than when I first started playing. To paraphrase a meme, I’m the gamer dad with 3 jobs, 2 wives, and 6 kids, who only has time to play an hour a week on the weekends. So I’m appreciative that the game has also evolved over time to be more accommodating to my current situation, where I don’t have to be ready 3 or 4 nights a week for the guild raid or spend hours getting turned down for groups cause I didn’t work on my io score. There are still ways I can progress my character outside of the traditional avenues.
You can call me a shill all you want, it means nothing to me. I criticize blizzard for plenty of things, but having extra ways to progress isn’t one of them and I will always push back against the call to a return of the days of just hit level cap, spam instance gameplay.
I quit PvPing for good in Wrath because I rocked the 79 bracket in 78 crafted resilience gear, had mad fun, then went to 80 and was two shot charlie. I get that you’re supposed to just queue and lose until you get the points for the real gear, but that always seemed absolutely insultingly stupid.
So now when I pvp I play dedicated pvp games and ignore everything but Comp Stomp in this. Even my biggest issues with a game like, say, Smite are tiny (for what it is, a far far simpler game than this overall) compared to even attempting to pvp in this game.
I mean, yes, if WoW offered a large slew of content beyond M+ and raid logging, your point would be sound, but my point is emphasizing that WoW is actually a small game in regards to content actually worth doing. It’s either M+ and raid logging and PvP or nothing at all. When your game, which is an MMORPG mind you, has a massive world where only 20% of it is relevant, you fail to make a case for why someone should stick with it over other games that offer a wider variety of activities.
More competition? You’re kidding, right?
Back when WoW was in its prime, it had SWTOR, Rift, Tera, Aion, Guild Wars 2, City of Heroes, Runescape, Warhammer Online and probably a lot more that isn’t even coming to mind right now.
WoW has less competition than it ever has.
However, even if we were to assume that the competition is stronger, why is that justification for its subscriber count dwindling? If anything, that’s even more proof that WoW needs to stop resting on its laurels and pick up the pace.
Old age is not a relevant factor in this. There are plenty of old games that still have huge playerbases. I can’t remember if I pointed this out or not in this thread, but League of Legends has eight million active daily players. The game is 14 years old. Do you think age is stopping that?
Not even the same thing and it’s silly you think it is.
Okay. Have fun on that treadmill, shill. I’m sure that when WoW has devolved to a F2P, microtransaction-invested shop, you’ll still be saying how it’s a great game that doesn’t need to change.
It seems your mistake is thinking everyone agrees with you on what content is actually worth doing.
It’s a little odd you think its only competition is other mmos. Why would a teen play a 17 year old game with dated looks that requires a massive time investment when they could just play fortnite or
Thanks for making my point for me. These games have a much lower entry cost (0) and are easy to pick up when they are bored and just as easy to put down when they are bored and require no where near the time investment an mmo like this does.
The funny thing is, the game has changed. A lot. I’d say that is one of the main reasons it has stayed as popular as it has for as long as it has. I’m not against change, I’m against reverting back into something inferior. You are the one advocating for it to devolve. You are the one mad it changed and didn’t want it to.
As someone pointed out WoW is actually smaller than how it’s presented. Only 20% of the content is relevant the rest of the world is irrelevant and when you switch other MMORPGs you find out how small WoW is.
Not sure why someone would ever come back or start anew in this game. I think if you have a dedicated people in game with WoW can be fun, but if you don’t have that just go to FF14 and make friends. The game and community are far superior. If you’re a solo MMORPG player, hop over to ESO, that’s the best solo-experience MMORPG.