I played a mobile game that added a real money temporary buffs to damage and survivability of your units. The only way you could get these buffs was by paying RL money and it seemed some of the higher encounters were balanced around you paying for this buff. People trying to claim WoW is P2W doesn’t know what P2W is. It is also why anything non-cosmetic should not be offered as a real money purchase.
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There are more people in the industry who will point out, unbiased, what pay to win is. Given that the industry is not completely tribal, and includes multiple independent thinking folks.
And I am fully aware of BF2 and the joke that it is. I do not recall many in the industry saying it wasn’t. You cannot throw the entire population under the same flag, just because a few say it wasn’t. Generalizing doesn’t help your case. Neither does the condescension in the tone of your response.
But your statement seems to ignore that Wikipedia cannot be changed to match these biases, when it most definitely can. Again, it is better to listen to those in the industry (not just one company like EA) who have a better idea of what pay-to-win is, then it is some random person on the internet changing the term because he’s butthurt about BF2 and maxing 3 credit cards trying to get that sweet sweet Darth Vader.
If you take one source, and claim it is the be all end all definition, you are purposefully ignoring information, making yourself more ignorant than the people you are trying to talk down to.
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Do you consider Battlefront P2W? You can earn everything ingame even if it will take hundreds - thousand hours.
So you do realize you are talking about things that actually provide an in-game advantage AND are only available by paying?
I could by the every mount in-game right now w/o spending a cent of RL money. You paying RL money has not given you an advantage over me. I could buy a raid carry every week or (gasp the horror) get into a raiding guild. You paying RL money to do he same has not gotten you an advantage over me.
Then its NOT pay to win if you can earn it without paying also. Jesus how do people not get that?
You’re nitpicking my post, i cant respond to you.
That was a response for the guy that said as long as you’re not winning the game, its not P2W (and nobody know what his definition of win in the first place).
Dont quote me again, tired of it.
So pointing out your failed comparison is “nitpicking”? You pointed out advantages gained only through paying RL money comparing to things that did not give such an advantage AND were also available via playing.
Also lol at saying “don’t quote me”. Sorry, but you don’t get to make that call.
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So players with money should have an advantage over those who don’t? That is the literal definition of what Pay-To-Win is. Giving advantages to those who don’t pay.
Character boosts are not the same. As it allows you to bypass everything to get to max level to do max level content. You don’t character boost and then go grief low level zones by stealing all the quests mobs and such…and if people do, then they have way too much money and time on their hands.
And if people use in-game gold to get tokens to get flying, why not cut the middle man out and just make it a gold cost for flying, like it used to be?
It would simply be easier to ask Blizzard to make it so flying is just Gold-gated, and skip this whole debate over what is pay-to-win.
Do you know how to read? Let me quote myself here, since it’s too hard for you:
No im pointing out your failed attempt at understanding who/what im responding to.
No you are making a completely different claim by trying to say items that actually give an in game advantage over people who don’t pay vs. items that did not give an in game advantage and were available via playing.
Flying is fast and convenient transportation. It does not augment the Hamster Wheel model of content design. Making you slowly grind the same content over and over again is the current model.
You should read that over again and re think your answer.
I feel like you got a little off topic here as we are talking about how paying money to access flying ( at the same time as it unlocks for other player) is not an advantage. Maybe if it was on launch day you could buy and others had to farm I would consider it, but no its over a year into the expansion.
Edit: At this rate i would like to voice my concerns that people who pay real money for those mounts have a advantage over me in mount offs…
I dont have time to explain to every single person in this thread about how a bought gear from irl money is not considered an in game advantage, i just dont have the patience.
Sorry.
That gold didn’t come from Blizzard, it came from other players.
You’ve been able to buy raid runs from raiding guilds since Classic. That’s not p2w.
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If people were buying gear with rl money that would be different. They aren’t doing that in WoW, so this whole thing is pointless.
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Im not sure if you’re trolling at this point or not, but one more time for the people in the back. Nobody said remove pathfinder, if you want to tediously grind it to feel “accomplished” then go for it. Im saying add the OPTION to also buy it if you want to avoid boring grinding. You know, how they do with level boosts now…
Does me boosting a character right now give me any advantage over you or anyone else? No.
Flying gives you an advantage in current content against people who do not have it, via world pvp and farming. That is an advantage flying gives. Giving players such advantage for real currency is a pay-to-win ideology.
Make it so its just gold, and it’s fine. As gold was flush in the economy of the game long before tokens and rains down on players.
This is an example in response to you mentioning Character boosts and what “Advantage” it may have.
The expansion has been out for almost 10 months… that isn’t over a year. Just feels like it because of how bad the expansion is…
Mounts are strictly cosmetic, thus there is no advantage.
It is hardly P2W, unless you spend thousands of dollars, the only gear you will be getting is ilvl 400 which is so easy to get with all the free loot these days. You can buy all the gold you want, but you will never get mythic level gear unless your the .5% of players who have a infinite supply of money to spend on wow tokens.
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If the game is balanced around wasting the person’s time until they get their wallet and buy stuff and if that option is there or the game tries it’s best to shunt you to the store or remind you the store exists…
But don’t worry, I’m sure WoW players don’t mind leveling their characters up for days or possibly weeks when theirs an option to buy the level boost for a price of a new game, on top of the sub fees. (Though i do like how Blizzard at least restrain themselves from showing us the store whenever they can ingame and what not on this game, that’s the only nice thing i can think of i guess.)
I’m sure fans of Middle Earth is fine grinding for orcs for hours while theirs an option to buy them back in 2017 when Shadow of War released. Thankfully that inane option stopped existing back midway in 2018 and they fixed the endgame grind and all that.
i’m sure Destiny 2 fans wouldn’t mind grinding for single use colors while theirs an option to buy them, even though in Destiny, they were account bound.
I’m sure fans of Assassin’s Creed wouldn’t mind grinding for better weapons and armor, and even missions and leveling up or so i heard while the store on Odyssey is looking fabulous as possible to entice fans to spend money on XP boosts, armors, horse armors, etc… (though to be fair, i wouldn’t consider any games past Syndicate, to be Assassin’s Creed anymore.)
I’m sure Basketball fans or fans of NBA wouldn’t mind NBA2K19 grinding for hours while an option to buy stuff to be better. Actually they did mind… a lot. ![:thinking:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/thinking.png?v=6" ":thinking:")
I’m sure fans of GTA or Red Dead, playing online wouldn’t mind getting killed by high level players who has the money (both ingame and rl money) and have to either grind out the levels for a good year and a half to get decent weapons or skill, or whip out the loan shark card.
I’m sure fans of Star Wars wouldn’t mind wasting their time for 40 hours to get Darth Vader, either that or possibly more money then they spent on EA’s Battlefront 2. $200+ if their unlucky. I find your Lack of faith, disturbing indeed.
My point is if it haven’t escaped you, and to others who thinks this… even if i can do it for free, the fact theirs an option that i can purchase to skip all that really devalues my experience and pretty much telling me that the game isn’t great and been modified in a way that it’s either trying my patience or it’s not that fun until i start buying something or get lucky when i should have it happen naturally while i play.
As for Pathfinder, i like it the way it is, Account bound license to fly in the new zones is pretty awesome. Even though the time to wait for it is pretty unreasonable, and i think part two should’ve been on the first major patch. It would be even more unreasonable and less satisfying if theirs an option to buy flying with real money.
The “Taxed Largely, Didn’t Rent” version is: keep your predatory microtransactions out of my video games.