Nah people were largely fine with guild banks being delayed till 2.2 as they knew they were coming eventually.
If blizzard was doing the same with LFD people would be fine with it.
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Pretty much, yeah.
My rebuttal to that is when gearing a fresh toon a majority of my guildies no longer want to do that content of a heroic for a trinket or attunement.
But valid reason even tho I think that the more min max you are the more of a problem this becomes which is the new culture of the community.
This doesn’t happen in the guild groups you stated above because you are in a guild with them. So that kinda opened up a rebuttal there to n the favor of the pro LFD crowd to meet new people.
This makes sense but what about PVPrs? Are they immune to the same standard by being able to teleport and remaining social?
I see more strat farm scammers that I have ever seen someone ninja in LFD and I’ve used it since it’s inception.
No I don’t, I’m the most social person in almost every group. That’s a personality trait not a system that blizzard forced me or deprived me of.
This is prob the most sound reason I’ve heard in this thread. And I agree with you. Some bis is outside of your normal armor requirements.
I can agree with this with notable bias tho.
I am a staunch believer that RDF should be implemented… but here is the argument I WOULD make if I didnt want it.
Because they want the journey to count. Yes… it is painful and tedious… but so is every adventure. If the hobbits did simply get a ride from the eagles from the onset to Mordor… I doubt very much there would have been anything to write a book about. Gandalf called some eagles, they flew to mordor and dropped the ring in some lava. Tadah!
I actually somewhat understand the sentiment as someone who DM’s D&D games on a regular basis. I would never want to hand my players an adventure without them feeling like they earned it.
I guess that is where we diverge. I think after 2 expansions we HAVE earned it. I didnt fight for RDF in Vanilla or TBC… but Wrath? Yeah we earned it.
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The difference here is that “Flying at 10,000ft to the dungeon entrance” is the equivalent of “Why didn’t the eagles just fly them to Mt Doom.” It’s not a journey if you use auto-fly.
Is the most exciting part of the campaign “Finding 4-6 players to come on a Saturday afternoon”?
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Why not just add it and let the players choose to use it or not. The way everyone is talking, there is a huge player base that wants to form their own groups and there is also a large player base that wants to be able to find a group and go. If the “it ruins the game” crowd is so large, you wont even notice its in game.
The journey, as in removing the teleport, would be fine. But the, “journey” of spending 20+ minutes forming a group while staring at/spamming LFG/the new tool isn’t engaging or worthwhile. And sadly that’s been the bulk of Classic/TBCC, and won’t change in Wrath.
If anything it’ll be worse.
Because the anti-LFD posters want to control the playerbase. They want to limit the options that we have so that the only option is the one that they prefer. They bring up a lot of fluffy and subjectives points as if it’s demonstrable or even the reality - and then they insult you and tell you to, “go to retail” if your experience isn’t a carbon copy of theirs.
Pro-LFD is about player choice and the best opportunities for the playerbase. Anti-LFD is the opposite. If it was in the game, there’d be far, far fewer players interested in forming groups manually because it isn’t compelling nor does it create, “connections” as they like to claim.
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And because they know that their own options would dry up because no-one else wants to manually craft groups so they’d lose all their power.
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Truth. Every anti-LFD poster I have seen would probably be diagnosed for narcissistic personality disorder. They just want to control others and will do anything to get their way. Meanwhile the rest of us just want to do what we pay to do, which is play the game.
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The ones I’ve seen do come across like that and they all seem to have stories of being unfairly vote kicked out of many groups.
and it removes the “world” from “world of warcraft”, replacing it with “lobby”. Terrible for the spirit of MMORPGs. For world pvp. for exploration. For navigation. For world design and for world immersion.
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Pro tip, flight paths, flight and teleport already exist since it’s you know a fantasy RPG. Noone is RPG walking to dungeons because “muh xpeerance”
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I think the whole dungeon teleport is a worn-out tired crutch to keep using against RDF. I’ve walked, ridden and been summoned to dungeon entrances a thousand times. I cannot think of one instance where it was interesting in any way. To keep saying that being teleported to an instance is game ruining the experience is just plain stupid.
Do yourself a favor and just walk around the world. No running, no riding, just walking. It sounds like anything less would ruin your immersion.
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And yet you continue to play this game. What’s tired and worn out is this “I spent too much time playing the game and I’m bored of it, so this game needs adapt to me rather than me just finding something else to play” mentality.
This argument sounds like the hyperbolic “I don’t want to level for the seven-thousandth time!” No one is forcing you to continue playing an old game more than a decade after its initial release. It’s no one’s fault but your own if you’ve walked, ridden and been summoned to dungeon entrances thousands of times and now you’re tired of it. Believe it or not, a lot of people play this game because they like it. Everyone’s experience shouldn’t be altered just because you’re burnt out on the content. Play the game to your heart’s content. And when you start getting tired of it, do the healthy thing and take a break from it, or play something else.
Whether you like it or not, the world of the game was designed to feel large, and to require travel. Teleporting into dungeons trivializes the distances one needs to travel in the game. And people aren’t wrong when they say that AFK-auto flying in the direction while they grab a drink isn’t a thrilling part of the experience. But this game was literally intended to require some time investment to get from point A to point B. If you’re tired of that mechanic, maybe WoW just isn’t the game you should be playing.
As a side note, teleporting directly to the dungeon also trivializes the utility of Mage portals, Warlock summons and the time/effort investment into faster mounts.
My theory is they could not get LFD to work programming wise. So Blizz decided the closure of low pop realms would end the need for the cross realm portion of LFD, which solved a major reason for it. The socialization reason is just a cover for the reasoning why they do not want to figure the coding issues out.
If nothing goes wrong RDF is fine. The problems occur when things don’t go right than it’s far worse than LFG tool.
Splitting the playerbase between two systems is the worst choice you can make.
I’ve never waited that look using LFG.
I think this is a really good post.
I’d like to hear what you think about the vote kick system that would come with RDF. I think it’s the main reason why blizzard is going with the LFG tool. Not just for the bad experiences the vote kick system causes for players but also because it’s a headache for them to monitor and maintain as well.
It’s all anecdotal at this point, maybe true, maybe not. Best way Blizzard could get a good sense is to poll people when they log in on whether they want stuff or not.
Regardless, to answer your question:
Anyone who thinks this, right or wrong, thinks it because it destroys server community as we are now all queueing into random groups with random people and auto teleporting to the dungeon, and to a certain extent it makes anonymity even more prevalent in that people will be able to ninja or leave dungeons without any repercussions (albeit, not like you can’t already do this on mega servers anyways).
You can disagree with this stance if you want, but thats basically the line of thinking. To some extent it’s true, but on mega servers it is probably not relevant. In early Vanilla, and even TBC, I was playing with the same people regularly because we weren’t on a large server and sometimes people were sparse so we kept people’s names in the back of our mind. On a big server like Mankrik, let alone Bene/Faer…doubtful it matters. The servers are so big unless you are rigging GDKP runs you can probably get away with anything and you won’t have to worry about your server rep.
Travelling to the dungeon is not why people play. Doing the Dungeon is why people play. The telport doesn’t create any greater sense of ‘community’ or ‘roleplay’. I’d be happy with “You can’t queue for a dungeon until you’ve completed quest X, or talked to the guy in front of the dungeon”, to ground it’s location in people’s minds, like FFXIV does, but that’s as far as that needs to go.
You keep saying “level” in all these posts when you mean “quest”. And in that context the statement is completely correct. No-one wants to solo quest for the seven-thousandth time, but levelling in dungeons with other like-minded players, puts the second M in MMORPG. Questing is a solo activity and it’s interesting when you’re doing new quests. When you’ve done the same old quests for the umpteenth time, it’s boring. But dungeons with new people are far more interesting. They’ll get boring too, but I honestly haven’t done the old world stuff below Mauradon (excluding SM and Stockades) more than once or twice since Classic started, usually because finding a group that wasn’t boosted took ages and I had better things to do and faster XP gains.
And yet you’re not campaigning for Flying to be removed. Or summoning stones. Or Warlocks.
You know, if you’re going to wax lyrical about the outside world, you really can’t then do an about face and claim that the only purpose for Mage ports, Warlock summons and faster mounts is to get to dungeons. And they’re not. Those features have massive applications elsewhere, from mining/herbing, questing, moving from outside location to outside location, returning to the old world for whatever.
Summoning Stones trivialize those things you listed, with relation to dungeons but Blizzard even added them in Season of Mastery to remove the travel aspect for at least 60% of the party (or almost all of the raid).
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Presumably they would just use the retail kick system which has most of the potential for abuse removed. And the reality is that the actual issues caused by vote kick were grossly over exaggerated, the only really systemic issue was people forming kick groups which blizzard fixed very early into it.