Sure, not like the blowhards threatening to quit over this. I’d rather the easy-going people that just take it in stride stick around than the crybabies that whine about things like this that don’t hurt the game (and I’d say actually helps to maintain the game, in my opinion.)
The people that whine that this is “destroying the game” won’t be missed. At all. And the rest of us that intend to play (I’ve been WAITING for Wrath) will enjoy the opportunity.
Between these forums and Reddit, I have yet to see a cohesive argument as to why RDF is a good thing.
I think the only thing we can do is wait for the inevitable blizzard blimp crash landing . The launch will be a huge success but then the month after will be a barren wasteland if they can’t get players in dungeons consistently.
At this point I barely care. I’m not waiting around and hope that this is the time they finally get something right.
there’s no consequences for any actions atm and when we can change names (presumably in wrath) you won’t even know the person who did the actions is in your presence
It’s not bad for the game. Personally, I think it does more good than harm. But I’ll try to play devil’s advocate and explain why different people have different reactions.
A lot of players view manual group formation is unnecessarily tedious, but some genuinely enjoy the process. The problem is they are such a minority that if RFD is in the game, they understand that there aren’t enough people that agree with them for their method to thrive.
Next, some people also enjoy having more control over their group composition. This is typically labeled “gatekeeping” because it always sucks when you’re excluded from a group, but the other side of this is those players don’t want to be “forced” to group with players they don’t want to. Before you dismiss this as elitist, who really likes being “forced” to do anything? Blizzard even said in the CC forums about realm populations that they generally avoid making players feel like they are forced to do something. I use forced in quotes w.r.t. RDF because it is mostly a feeling and they aren’t truly being forced. It doesn’t make the difference though, because a feeling is enough to justify consideration.
Lastly, a lot of people are against cross-realm grouping because they view classic style realms as their in game communities, and some like their communities to be smaller and more intimate.
I’m not giving proper attention to all the reasons, but these are the big 3 that make the most sense to me, even though I don’t personally identify with any of them.
OMG…its a loot ninjya. Oh wait…that ninjya can play. Awesome! really jsut want the xp at this point on levelers. To me the only difference between a ninjya and and hr tank is…the ninjya is at least honest about. it.
dude…I will need/greed evertthing and not care.
well then…thanks for being honest about being a thief. get me thiss cleared fast…have at it. I hope you win rolls to screw over hr tank. that dude is stealing like you and is selling a line of bs to make it sound better. I’ll take honesty any day of the week over that.
Reading this I actually did realise there is a potential problem with LFD in early wotlk, and that being the need/greed limited to class specific items, i.e. as a warrior I want to roll on certain leather items which will upset the rogues and ferals. Hunters also roll on leather. Similarly the holy pallies and resto druids with bis cloth items.
That said I lived in LFD towards the end of wrath, leveled multiple toons that way, and had a blast tanking with dual specs and instant queues all the way.
I never saw it as an impediment to social interaction or community as my community was my guild. I’d frequently pick up a guildie or 4 and LFD would fill as needed.
What sucks today in TBC is trying to get anything done while having LFG bulletin board open and spamming to find whatever roles I need to get a daily Hc done on an alt.
Day 1 LFD, no x-server, and be done with this argument and ready for the race to 80.
When you find good people add to friends, when you find bad people add to ignore so you never get auto grouped with them again. On anything less than mega server that’ll shut the bads out real quick. It may take longer on mega servers but that a mega server for you.
Actually, I forgot about this reason. I don’t generally care too much about group composition, but I do try whenever possible to minimize loot competition. So I’ll ask people what loot they’re after and I’ll try not to invite 2 hunters after the same trinket, for example. The way that retail RDF addresses this problem isn’t classic-like, IMO, so if it is in fact a problem it needs a unique solution.
I think being able to “soft-res” an item when queuing is a good idea. The system will try not to put two of the same soft-reses together. It’ll still happen but if it’s less often it will be an improvement IMO.
They came out originally with the ZA patch. They were added in TBCC in Phase 2. That says far more that they weren’t ready, not that they weren’t desired. They actively released guild banks far earlier than the original time line. That’s where that comes from. Banks were far more likely a “not ready yet” delay, or we’d not have gotten them until Phase 4.
If that’s the case with LFD, it may come with Ulduar (like Guild Banks did) if their real reason for not including it is the delay due to issues.
The reasons LFD is bad for the game has been stated countless times on these forums from as far back as pre-classic release. Just because you don’t value the aspects of the game lost with LFD, doesn’t make them not real.
Ill list them again for you in case you are new here,
LFD diminishes the need to build a network and make friends outside your guild to get content done in the game. When LFD isn’t in the game, it’s in your best interest to go out of your way to build a network so you can easily get dungeon groups. You have an incentive to group up while questing and talk to people in your pug groups so you can add them to your friends list. When LFD is in the game, there is no reason to build these server communities. Cross realm bgs and the elimination of most elite quests in the world also contributed to this problem, and LFD was the final nail the coffin to the social aspect of the game.
Auto teleport destroys immersion, you don’t bump into other players (or the warring faction) along the way, you have no reason to even leave the capitol city. Flying mounts were another catastrophic mistake that contributed to this problem, and LFD is again the final nail in the coffin that completely destroyed this aspect of the game.
99% of the time nobody talks in cross-realm dungeons because you didn’t have to speak a word to get that group. Nobody has a reason to, because you’ll never see that person again and you don’t need them in your network because you can just sit in a queue for a random group. Even if people talk, oh no too bad your friend is on another server can’t group with them again.
Reputation becomes irrelevant because there in no social consequences in cross-realm dungeons. The quality of groups goes down because people can act like d***'s and ninja loot with no real consequences. People will vote kick over the most minor infractions or scapegoat someone over a single wipe because they can just queue for another dungeon.
LFD does sacrifice many social and immersion aspects of the game, cornerstones of what makes the game an MMO, in the name of convenience. YOU probably value convenience over the social aspect of the game, and that’s fine, you can play retail WoW, FF14, ESO, and a plethora of other fake MMOs that cater to your mindset. Most of wrath did not have LFD, most of the people who pushed blizzard for years for classic realms do not want LFD, most of the classic playerbase outside a vocal minority of people posting from retail characters on the forums do not want LFD.
In retail…this only an issue on leveling and being fresh max cap.
But not really for some. Even with retail personal loot…I get no drops more often than not lol. RNG hates me. It has since I started late legion.
and at this point…I actually give away gear. I am in retail lfd for dailies/weeklies/callings. that is it. I see a fresh 60. I get a drop they can use. I trade it not even asked. that ring in heroic does them more good than it does for me. People were nice to me doing this on fresh 60 alts. I keep that karma flowing.
Wrath at several months in…would be like this. A bunch of people doing a daily. want to cut throats for the item to disenchant…have at it. I’d be there for some daily. Really just want the clear to close quest out.
Many I am sure would be like this.
The problem is people’s issues with LFD are highly subjective, most people either don’t have those problems with it or consider the trade off worth it. Which is because LFD actually does solve concrete problems.
So when people say something abstract like “LFD is bad for community” something that can’t actually be quantified it’s hard to explain how that’s really a problem. Since it gets put next to the quantifiable benefits LFD provides like guaranteeing you a group eventually regardless of server/level/spec.
In retail this doesnt exist becuase warriors and pallies exclusively wear plate, hunters and shamman exclusively wear mail, dh rogue and monk exclusively wear leather and the rest exclusively wear cloth.
This was a change (plate specialization) that came in around the same time as LFD and ICC but did not exist prior.
Prior to this you could equip any item of a lower armor class than your max, so anything for a paladin, anything up to mail for shammie, anything upto leather for druid. Much of enhance/resto shamman and hpally bis was cloth, and warriors, hunters, and ret used various leather pieces.
PreBiS, Naxx, Ulduar, and ToC included many of these items that hark all the way back to items from Truestrike Shoulders in classic UBRS, to CVoS in TBC which shows you dont have the faintest idea what you are talking about and presumably werent playing the game 16 years ago!
Because that isn’t how Blizzard caves and reverts things and you know it.
They do something stupid. Double down on it when the community backlash happens. Then after it has failed miserably they walk it back saying “They listened to the community”.
and guess what. The game after LFD was that as well. You know what change. Building a guild in wow became building a discord community on discord. It was no longer tied to WoW. LFD had nothing to do with the rise of social media and programs like discord.
I honestly do not understand why people can’t seem to get that the reason the social aspect of WoW has lessened is that you no longer needed WoW as a chat room (not saying you don’t understand).
We could have never gotten LFD or LFR and the same exact thing would have occurred. With or without LFD and LFR people no longer feel the need to socialize in-game and choose to do so on things like discord.
From day one a classic socialization in-game was doom. Why? because every realm had it own discord to socialize in.
I’m going to meet those same people regardless. You deal with the same way. Put them on ignore, and never worry about them again.
Ah yes, the “let’s take to the unrealistic extreme” defense instead of giving any valid reasoning.
This.
Holy… on Jaina’s big bright eyes… I’ve never met a player so blind to the game. Even mega realms has issue filling groups. Add onto that, that players actively do not want to be leaders. They want to be asked, but do not want to do the asking.
We already have proof that with the system they choose to implement. There will be dungeon group… just sitting waiting for someone to take the initive to form the group. A Tank, A Healer, and 3 DPS. All looking for the same dungeon for 30+ minutes, but none of them were willing to start it. This. Is. What. Automated. Grouping. Solved.
It made it so that all these introverts who didn’t want the responsibility of leading a party. Could go do a heroic. Could go do a dungeon.
The reason this was never needed in larger content. Was because it needed fewer leaders. You need fewer people willing to take the time to set it up.
God, I hope you are a troll and if you are. Congratz you are the first person on this forum to legitimately get me frustrated.
I’m done… I wanted to see if anyone would actually give any legitimate arguments, and no they didn’t. They just claimed you didn’t understand and you would never understand. Not a single person had the conviction to lay out why RDF was bad.
Thanks, Id actually forgotten about PL in retail. Been a while since I played retail but it was there by the time I quit it.
Although Id single that out as one of the anti social aspects of retail imo. I recall having discussions back when loot was shared as to who might get the most out of it. Nothing in LFD prevents that discussion if Blizzard implements it without going x-server. Judicious use of freind/ignore exclude known ninjas.
They fail to convince you because it’s not bad for the game LFD is completely fine especially if you take an account thee group find her system that they put in the game now.
I’m not in the Beta but I’ve seen it And I’m just like wow they actually managed to make a group find your system worse and your system worse than trade chat that’s an accomplishment on a whole horrible level congratulations If lizard you couldn’t even copy and paste a system from retail.
Yeah I did mess with it and you made it ultimately horridly worse wow