While Magni did mention at the end of BfA that Azeroth was free of the Old Gods, Exploring Northrend reveals that it’s not the exact case. Though Yogg-Saron is still imprisoned within Ulduar and its influence considered contained, it is noted that its whispers still spread throughout Ulduar and Northrend.
This actually bothers me because BfA had that “Azeroth is free of the Old Gods” thing. It just feels like Blizzard can be all “No wait, Azeroth wasn’t, but now it is because Yogg-Saron was defeated.” And then reverse course because C’Thun is technically still in play and then pull that off with the first Old God we faced.
It is my hope that instead of repeating the whole “Free Azeroth from the Old Gods” storyline they did with N’Zoth, they tie a returned Yogg-Saron with the Void Lords. Like either he helps pave the way for one of them to enter Azeroth or something.
This reveal comes at a wierd time when I no longer care about Dragonflight and I’m so put off by this forum I don’t even want to post my theories anywhere anymore.
Blizzard realized they allowed Afrasiabi to get rid of too many good villains and beloved lore characters in a single expansion so they backpedaled and broke the emergency glass.
Good. People hate Danuser, but what Afrasiabi did to the lore the last years was completely irreparable, unless Blizz uses the big retcon hammer as never before
Eh. I am very sceptical about Yoggy returning in Dragonlands of all expacs.
We literally just killed an oldie right before Shadowflight. Bringing another in this quickly would be overkill. There’s also less of a connection here; N’zoth was Deathwing’s boss, C’thun had ties to the Bronze Bois, but Yoggy? Nothing linking him to dragons at all. They’d first have to build that ground before jumping right to Yoggy.
Yogg-saron personally corrupted Loken. Loken sent assasins to kill Tyr. Tyr has pretty much been in exile trying to avoid this from happening. This was revealed in part of the Silver Hand Paladin Order Hall Questchain. Where we also learn that Bolvar as the LK was trying to raise Galakrond, every LK has tried to raise undead Galakrond, but they can’t because one of his bones in missing, first stolen by Tyr in disguise as a female Taunka, then given to Trag Highmountain in the comics. Trag Highmountain (now a DK in the Ebon Blade as of WoLK) has the last piece of the puzzle to resurrecting Galakrond.
Yogg-Saron in his visions takes credit for the coruption of the Dragon Soul when Neltharion asked the other aspects to put some of their own power into it. He stole some of their powers.
In BfA we used the remaining essences of the Dragonflights to empower the Heart of Azeroth, we essentially made a new Dragon Soul and blasted N’Zoth with it. We still have no idea what that did to N’Zoth all we know was the Void whispers Alleria hears multipled after N’Zoth’s “death.” (Alleria is destined to become the greatest servant of N’Zoth)
C’thun is also not fully dead. One of his eyes was given as a gift from the Alliance to Saurfang during the War of the Shifting Sands, that eye has since dissapeared. We know from Mop that all you need is an organ of an Old God, as we pretty much destroyed Vale of Eternal Blossoms just for Y’shaarj’s heart and it still corrupted Garrosh in the process and released the Sha to currupt all of Pandaria. I think the cultists are doing weird stuff with C’thun’s eye in Dire Maul. Where Cho’gall made a prophesy about the true End Time (the Kalmidor book said the Horde shouldn’t sleep on that place and it will likely be another classic era dungeon we revist. in Act 2 maybe after we go to Uldaman) Remember, Netharion and Senestra were very close to Cho’Gall and his twilight cultists. Grim Batol was in the same Zone as the Twilight Citadel. Garona’s story is part of this - Yogg-Saron manipulated her into kill Llane Wyrnn, which caused her hunt down Chogall and the Twilight cultists in Cataclysm, she has strong lore ties to the Dragonmaw Orcs who helped her in the Twilight Highlands.
There’s so much potential exciting things coming in Dragonflight.
Also Yogg-Saron is the mysterious new master of the undominated Scourge. He was previously fighting both Arthas and Bolvar for control of the Scourge for years and may have been the reason Arthas took up Frostmourne to begin with, the Old God corruption of Arthas started when he was a child, from the whispers of Zakajz the Corruptor. He was trying to corrupt the whole Menethil Dynasty, almost convincing Calia to marry Neltherion in his human form. (the Scarlet Brotherhood think they have her and Neltherion’s legitimate child and heir to Lordaeron as their leader, they have infiltrated the Gilnean forces under Genn)
Oh and between the Legion pre-patch scenario where we visit Ulduar and help Mimiron’s little minion guy fight back Yogg-Saron’s spreading corruption. The ethereals plot with the Brawler’s Guild. To the hint in BFA that Ulduar’s comms were down and Mimron was no longer replying to Magni’s and M.o.t.h.e.r’s attempts to contact him, all point to signs that Yogg-Saron is no longer fully contained.
His demise would devastate Northrend with something akin to the Sha. No wonder the Infinite Dragonflight look Sha-corrupted if that is the case.
We just killed N’Zoth and took Ny’alotha with it so Yogg-Saron will be quite annoyed at the loss of his Black Empire. Then again he did proudly proclaim the end of days coming upon us and that the shadow of his corpse will choke the land for all eternity.
Yogg-Saron that said is still brain damaged even with his head wounds healed up so he won’t be at the potential he would have been if he escaped during Wrath of the Lich King.
He should be just below the level of C’Thun going all out(which he wasn’t in favor of using brute force with no Mind Control) when he escapes his prison.
Garrosh destroyed the Vale to resurrect the Heart then drained it’s power into himself killing it dead while retaining his mind.
As for why Garrosh retained his mind? Void Corruption can only be countered by more Void Corruption as shown by the Legendary Cloak and considering Garrosh was afflicted with the Red Pox which was reverse engineered from the Curse of Sethe which is Void-based…
Such great irony the Void Corruption of Garrosh by Sethe made him immune to Void Corruption by the recently resurrected Heart of Y’Shaarj.
In the end once we get rid of Brain-Damaged Yogg-Saron at the end of Dragonflight everything will lead into the showdown with C’Thun as he establishes the Black Empire. C’Thun should have recovered before we even fought Yogg-Saron so he is merely just waiting it out playing dead.
As for why Yogg-Saron’s chains will be broken for Dragonflight: Odyn still has those Heretics in Avalon to deal with and as the Titan Keepers state: Avalon cannot be besieged without breaking the seals on the Old Gods and as C’Thun has already had his chains broken that means that it is better if they get Yogg-Saron out as chances are they will fight over each other’s territory like in distant past while Odyn’s forces deal with Avalon’s Heretics.
The sorting algorithm of Evil means we fight from weakest to strongest: G’huun, N’Zoth, Brain-Damaged Yogg-Saron, C’Thun, Revived Yogg-Saron and finally Y’Shaarj.
Of course considering Ny’alotha might be N’Zoth’s home realm it might be possible that G’huun will be the ultimate victor of the War against the Old Gods and simply move his resurrected form to a secluded part of Azeroth to inflict Underrot everywhere. This might be the irony that Xal’atath speaks of…
Of course if Ny’alotha is not in the Void that means that N’Zoth can revive, come over, kick G’huun to the curb and exploit C’Thun’s redecorations of Azeroth to rule unchallenged.
Y’Shaarj is a God of Sin, Yogg-Saron is a God of Death, C’Thun is a God of Chaos and G’huun is a God of Rot… N’Zoth is the safest of the 5 and would be welcomed as someone who can bring Order to C’Thun’s Chaos.
Flesh is Odyn’s first Gift and Avalon is his second Gift. He opens the way to Avalon so that we can go there following the defeat of the God of Chaos. The moment C’Thun’s prison was shattered it became destiny that the remaining prisons be shattered to open the way to Avalon and it’s salvation. 5 Keys to Open our Way. 5 Torches to light our Path.
To escape the Darkness of C’Thun’s Chaos and the Death of Yogg-Saron’s demise we must seek Avalon… The Lord of Ravens will turn the final Key… In the sunken City of Avalon the first Arthas lies dreaming… King Arthas the Drowned God’s Heart is black ice.
The Void Lords are coming for King Arthas for he is their master. Their King… The Black Goat watching the pool is getting hungrier… bolder… The Void Lords’ time is limited…
I think we didn’t kill actual Garrosh I think we killed an AU verison of Corrupted Garrosh in the Seige of Orgrimmar raid, not unlike how we saw a AU version of Deathwing’s death in the End Time Dungeon.
We defo arrested Garrosh in our MU and he escaped to AU Draenor.
The Lord of Ravens is Odyn. Havi has some interesting “turning of the key” dialogue, you should revisit Stormhiem with new perspective. “Forge a key in the blood of champions and maybe the lock will turn.” Uncanny wording, too uncanny to be a coincidence.
We are the key.
Odyn’s fist thing he did when he was released from the Halls of Valor was visit Ulduar. (Also there’s a Titan artifact that connects him to Lord Ravenholdt and Jarod Shadowsong which turned the tide of the NE’s in the War of the Ancients, I can’t remember the details but it was something {a gem, or a looking glass I dunno} that allowed them to see through lies.)
He seems to have been grooming us as N’Zoth’s Champion even in Legion. Also Ra-Den dialogue in Throne of Thunder has always been relevant,but it’s even more relevant since after he’s turned by N’Zoth he says the Titan’s plan is single minded, and Old Gods have renewed his purpose or something (he was super depressed because he didn’t know how to save the world from it’s inevitable destruction)
The Titans are bad. The Titan Keepers are conflicted and know more than they let on. Archaedas was the only one given the secret to Uldir. I hope that’s why we are going to Uldaman. I want more Uldir lore, because they dropped a bomb on us in BFA, and they cut out interesting lore about Xibala which now makes more sense with new Dragonflight lore and corrupted water. the Titans fabricated the Blood Plague, infected Xibala with it and almost wiped out the primordial trolls.
We didn’t even kill him in the Raid! We simply humiliated him in combat and caused the Void Armor to dissipate upon defeating him.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Garrosh_Hellscream_(tactics)#Trivia shows that Garrosh was unconscious instead of dead.
Yogg-Saron, Sargeras and Zovaal were broken by despair wanting to wipe out all life while N’Zoth and Odyn the Lord of Ravens were filled with hope against the Black Goat’s attack on King Arthas the Drowned God.
The Sunken City of Avalon is the Finale of the Black Empire’s Story.
Dragonflight with it’s fight against Yogg-Saron and Murozond is merely the lead in to the Black Empire Expansion involving the Final Battle of Avalon.
Irony we were expecting a Lovecraftian Tale but in the end were given the tale of King Arthur himself! Of course King Arthur fears the Knights Who Say Ni and is constantly given problems by the Green Knight and the French.
The fall of the Black Goat will only be the beginning… The Green Knight, the Knights Who Say Ni and the French have yet to play their parts…
Stormwind too. when Deathwing attacked and left Saronite behind, Varian just ordered it to be covered up by new buildings. That’s why he continued to have nightmares.
They could easily retroactively make the Burning of Teldrassil necessary after the events of Stormrage.
i would love for Varian’s nightmares of the dead of Stormwind to come back to life, and we see undead Tiffin Wrynn.
Tyr is dead, which invalidates alot of your theories involving him.
Source?
Destiny is fluid with the Void as they see every path as true.
The Sha were released before Garrosh stole the heart and blew up the Vale. Furthermore Garrosh was still in control of himself.
While Yogg-Saron does claim this moment, we still dont know how. We do know that it was Gul’dan who ordered it and because of his magic she was forced to obey. She then took to hunting any Shadow Council survivors like Cho’gall.
Pure speculation and Calia was horrified at the idea of being forced to marry. Deathwing himself is likeky responsible for her changed mind, as shown in the Dalaran fountain coin.
2 years ago: We’re free of the Old Gods! They’re all dead!
Now: Just kidding we’re not done milking them yet, we’re going to keep reusing the same bad guys over and over and over again.
storm giants surrounding the bones of Galakrond trying to pump him full of lightning. Also the Silver Hand questchain, in the paladin Order Hall, does talk about it. We are brought there and we are retold the important bits related to Tyr in Dawn of the Aspects.
I don’t know either, but yet we also don’t know the extent of Gul’dan’s machinations in the Shadowlands and his connections to Maldraxxus. I imagine we will get more lore about this over time. And I am counting on more hinted stuff from Dire maul like the power that is hidden there.
Not speculation, but political intrique and propaganda.The Scarlet Brotherhood pamphlets are important and not to be thrown aside. Yes, it’s unlikely that Calia did secretly marry Neltharion and gave him a male child heir. (that’s contradictory to what she’s told us.) It’s the kind of ramblings of a mad prophet and that’s intentional. The Scarlet Brotherhood is going to be a crutial part of a an Alliance civil war between supporters of Turalyon and supporters of Genn to sit the throne in Anduin’s abscence. We already know that the Scarlet Brotherhood has infiltrated Genn’s people. Calia gave them back Gilneas. Finally the Alliance has the potential of an interesting story for a change.
Tyr is speculated to be a shapeshifter. (Odyn was also able to take the form of Havi, so it’s not farfetched that the Titankeepers can hide in plain sight.) He’s been speculated to be still alive since Dawn of the Aspects. He may have even lead Jaina to Malygos’ Focus Iris in the Nexus. I always assumed Tyr was a Shadowy watcher figure, lowkey influencing the story as it unfolds. now, that’s speculation.
He may have been the Taunka who appeared to Jaina at Galakrond’s rest, the one who eventually gave the bone of Galakrond to Trag Highmountain.
I don’t believe that interpretation is true. That in itself is just a popular accepted headcanon. In BfA we have a lot of stuff around Zul and his prophesies and one of the things revealed by his apprentice is “Shadows twist the threads of Fate.” which I interpret to mean that fate is being tampered with by agents in the Shadows. N’Zoth seems to have accurate forsight. Things he said in the Crucible have come true. I think the Old Gods are the ones manipulating fate so that they win, I think that’s what finally breaks Nozdormu.
“The veil wanes. His crown will open the way.”
“When the arrow finds its mark, the last fetter will fall away.”
He gave us a preview of Shadowlands. The Veil (between Azeroth and the Shadowlands) wanes. His crown (the Helm of Domination) will open the way." when Sylvanas shattered it she opened the way to the Shadowlands. “When the arrow finds its mark, the last fetter will fall away.” Sylvanas’s heel turn, she was the last fetter in the Jailer’s plans. What is important is Sylvanas in the Shadowlands trailer, verbatim quotes Yogg-Saron’s vision of Bolvar’s submission, so I have not fully ruled out her potentially still being somewhat controlled by him like the rest of the freed Scourge. She seemed to be speaking on behalf of the Scourge in the trailer when she called ICC “a monument to our suffering.” (a monument the Scourge built infuenced by Yogg-Saron himself out of the blood of Yogg-Saron- I know you don’t believe that to be lore. You prefer the speculation that the Dreadlords built it, but it is actually plausible lore for the origin of ICC, that lore has existed as Alliance Pit of Saron pov since WoLK)
You are not entirely off base with that. I revisited Twilight Citadel recently and Cho’gall’s crazy head is starting to make sense where he never did before. I have a theory that N’Zoth and Yogg-Saron are still vying for dominance. Cho’gall calls us “the usurper’s children.” he could be refering to us as Titanforged, and the usupers being the Titans. but Illgynoth said “we serve the same master, flesh is his gift.” the gift of Flesh was Yogg-Saron’s gift, we are his children.
Xal’atath reinforces that in BfA that N’Zoth is the ‘weakest of her brothers’ and they are all vying for top spot. So it makes sense why servants of C’thun or N’Zoth would look down on us. But N’Zoth was trying to turn us into his champions, and I imagine keeping his gift is going to pay off one day and we might be his chozen spared from his brother Yogg. I think Havi/Odyn is a minion of N’Zoth, his son Loken was a minion of Yogg-Saron and the final thing they said to eachother was probably a threat from their respective masters.
I don’t think the Old Gods are one dimensional baddies, I think “Good-Guy N’Zoth” is temporarily a thing.
I think he was the second most powerful of the old gods just below Y’Shaarj. Considering how many of the titanforged he was able to kill before his fall.
Yeah, Y’shaarj was on top. Yogg-saron was next. Based on how difficult the titanforged found to defeat him. C’thun is probably somewhere in the middle. N’zoth probably allowed himself to be imprisoned. After all, N’zoth plays the long game. Also following what Aman’thul did to Y’shaarj. N’zoth was also regarded as the weakest of the original Old God according to Xal’atath. Blizzard has described G’huun as being a baby compared to true Old Gods like N’zoth.
I still reckon there was a 5th Old God as there was in the original lore. Chronicles vol 1 doesn’t mention how many landed on Azeroth. Instead it focuses solely on Y’shaarj. And it only names the rest once Aggramar finds the planet. Blizzard has made an in-game theory that Xal’atath (the entity, not the dagger) is what remains of said 5th Old God. G’huun can’t be it as it was made after the Ordering of Azeroth unintentionally.
It basically was. The Void sees Death as the enemy of all. As seen in the Windrunner comics. Where entities in the void were trying to convince Alleria to kill Sylvanas because she serves the enemy of all (aka Zovaal). N’zoth knew that Zovaal was going to make his final play and tried to warn us about it. Unfortunately, being a creature of the void, N’zoth was basically the Old God who cried wolf.