We are in the Middle of a Three Expansion Plot

Please give me your suspense of disbelief for a few minutes.

In the visions of Yogg-Saron we fight in Ulduar there are three visions which seem to suggest that Yogg-Saron may have had influence in these events, upon further inspection it becomes clear that not only did he control these events he saw these events as crutial to his own victory. Battle for Azeroth, Shadowlands and Dragonflight are not stand alone expansions. They are three continuing stories that set the stage for the Rise of the Black Empire. Starting with Battle for Azeroth, he was the one behind the Faction War, not the Jailer. The parallels between his vision of the assasination of Llane Wrynn and Battle for Azeroth are clear.

Garona: “Bad news sire, The clans are united under Blackhand. They will stand together until Stormwind has fallen. Gul’dan is bringing up his warlocks, until then the Blackrock clan will be trying to take the eastern wall.

Yogg-Saron: “A thousand deaths.”

King Wrynn” We will hold till the reinforcements come. As long as men with stout hearts are manning the walls and the throne, Stormwind will hold.”

Garona: “The orc leaders agree with your asssement.” assasinates the King

Yogg-Saron: “Your petty quarells only make me stronger.”

In Battle for Azeroth Sylvanas has a new plan, her plan is to take Stormwind. why? we do not know why she was compelled to do this now, after defeating the Legion. Both the Horde and the Alliance had finally defeated the Legion and they needed time to rebuild and recuperate and yet here was another Horde Warchief fanning the flames of war with a singular goal to capture Stormwind. It’s not a coincidence that Saurfang calls Sylvanas “Blackhands legacy.” looking back over the previous expansions it seems like, although Stormwind has not fallen, a Wrynn no longer sits on the Throne. There is a pattern emerging here. One that spans not one but three expansions.

Yogg-Saron: “The giant Rook watches from the dead trees. Nothing breathes beneath his shadow. The tortured spirits of your ancestors cling to you. screaming in silence.”

Saurfang: “The Horde I joined was birthed in blood. tainted by corruption. The road that lead to the Dark Portal was long and wide, paved with the blood of innocents. We called it the Path of Glory. That was the great lie upon which the Horde was founded.”

Honor. “That anything we did was honorable. Thrall, Vol’jin, they were not the true heirs to blackhand’s bloody legacy, Sylvanas Windrunner is.”

The battle for Azeroth did set the groundwork for a lot of character growth, especially for characters like Saurfang, who seemed to have broken a cycle of hatred within the Horde. But in hindsight this only shines a spotlight on how the Horde has been continously been abused by the Old Gods who saw them as tools of aggression. Sylvanas was not the sole inheritor of this legacy, but in hindsight she may have acted unknowingly, as an agent of Yogg-Saron. Although this does place the onwership of this specific war entirely on the shoulders of the Horde for being the aggressors in most conflicts, that doesn’t mean that Yogg-Saron doesn’t continue to victimize the Wrynn family as well and plays heavily on this. Llane Wrynn was assainated by design and this truth has haunted the Wrynn dynasty.

In the novel Stormrage, the nightmare mists of Yogg-Saron force Varian Wrynn to live an nightmare where the risen dead attack his city, not unlike how Llane had to hold off the Horde from attacking Stormwind. In the Varian short story, Varian has a nightmare of his father’s assasination where he has to witness his father being assasinated by Garona and he sees all kinds of bugs and rot spewing from his father’s mouth, visions of the God of Death Yogg-saron. Simply because of the proximity of Old God blood, saronite that was left behind by the attack of Deathwing. Yogg-Saron has always been there under the surface of this story. In a dev interview from post-WoLK the devs remarked that in hindsight they failed in showing just how powerful and tied into the narrative Yogg-Saron really was. I think they have succeeded in Battle for Azeroth and Shadowlands where they have otherwise failed.

In the millenia that followed, the other dragonflights had hunted Dreathwing’s children to the brink of extinction. Nowhere seemed safe for the black dragons. Yet when the Horde invaded, Deathwing saw an opportunity to destroy all who who wanted him and his flight dead.

The Old Gods approved of Deathwing’s intentions. Though they were enemies of the Legion They knew the Horde would bring immense suffering and death to Azeroth. With the world and it’s people’s weakened the Old Gods would assert thier dominion and restore the Black Empire. - Chronicles vol.1

These following threads have been woven into the very lore of World of Warcraft and they are finally getting the attention to detail that it deserves. This cannot be overlooked any more for those who are willing to see. All of this is leading to the Rise of the Black Empire. N’Zoth was just the beginning. In the end both sides of the Horde civil war were manipulated by the Old Gods, Sylvanas was clearly an agent causing mass death, but the lie of honor also feed Yogg-Saron many souls.

Sylvanas: “Saurfang’s Inconsidered challenge may have ended the war prematurely but that doesn’t matter, countless souls have been fed to the hungering darkness. Though I cared for the living, I did pity the Forsaken for the great injustice that made them what they are. I understand the cruelty of fate better than anyone. But despite all I taught them they still cling to hope.”

Now, it’s hard to tell if they were planning something different for Sylvanas’s character arc. in Hindsight there may have been creative differences which ultimately changed her plan in Shadowlands. But at this point I think she was not only being manipulated by the Jailer, but she was also possibly speaking for Yogg-Saron as well.

N’zoth told us that in time all of our eyes would be open to the truth, this is merely a glimpse.


sniffs air

Do I smell I “Here me out”?



Blizzard compared to Square Enix are not very good at closing up their sagas it would seem.

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One problem I see with your theory is that by all indications, this plot point was completely dropped or replaced. It only appears in the prequel novel Before the Storm, and then it’s never mentioned again. Sylvanas takes no steps during the whole expansion that suggest she is aiming at Stormwind specifically, and no one ever talks about it as a goal.

Blizzard is generally not subtle; they kind of have to bash us all over the head with major things like this, or else the casual players are going to miss them completely. I think it is far more likely that the plan to attack Stormwind was jettisoned when a certain dev decided Sylvanas should burn Teldrassil instead.


This is why I think there could have been changes to Sylvanas’s arc. Both A Good War and Before the Storm, her plan was to take stormwind. That plan was not mentioned at all in Golden’s Sylvanas novel. Maybe this was the original plan by Afrasabi and they decided to go somewhere else with Sylvanas arc? Or maybe this was all planned and it’s going to plan, I think there is actually more proof to the latter.

Shadowlands and it’s cut content also throws a wrench in this theory, which sucks because Shadowlands was underdeveloped both in story and narrative threads. Burning Teldrassil I think was always a goal, Teldrassil has strong ties to Yogg-Saron too, they could have easily explained that he manipulated her to do it as revenge for the NE’s having put an end to Yogg-saron corrupting Teldrassil in Stormrage, but then they would have revealed their story too early, that plot is for the last act in Dragonflight when the Nelves have to fight off corruption in thier new seed.

They can’t reveal thier plot in the first act, I assumed there would be a lot of doubt around this, we may not even start to see these threads coming together until early Dragonflight. The most interesting bit to me is the idea that fate is sealed. Every Old God whisper has come true to date, we are still on the path to loss. “Shadows twist the strings of Fate.” This absolutely is tied to Morozond stuff too, he is, after all, trying to save us from the true End Time.

I like these theories, mainly because I love the old gods.
And I love the old gods because they play with the fates of mortals and the world in the background.

They make sense to be pulling the strings, The jailor just didn’t make sense to be pulling any strings.
I almost wonder if really an old god influenced her, she broke the helm that opened up to the Shadowlands, and then the old gods influence the jailor as well. Because who knows if he really was doing anything until we showed up, Like things were bad before we showed up, but like nothing actually happened until we started doing stuff.

old god ideas are fun. : )


In Before the Storm Sylvanas believed that it would take less time for the Horde to recover than the Alliance. The goal that she displayed in the novel was was directing the Horde towards the Alliance and then resurrecting the fallen people of Stormwind to bolster the Forsaken ranks. When Anduin proposed the Gathering, Sylvanas found amusement and wonder if it Gathering could the living and undead connecting and ultimately the people of Stormwind choosing undeath themselves. It was a brief thought that obviously didn’t happen but yeah…

Anyways the Sylvanas novel, these events were retconned. She was approached by Mal’Ganis after the Legion was defeated and informed about Argus’ defeat shutting down the Arbiter and that the Jailer requested that she started a war to funnel souls into the Maw. Sylvanas then obliged and started the war. Stormwind wasn’t a mentioned factor for the war.

Were they? or were they just omitted? The Dreadlords had the same plan.

I feel they were retconned because claiming Stormwind and resurrecting the fallen humans as Forsaken doesn’t fit the torment of souls plan that Sylvanas decided on. The night elves were raised in Darkshore because Sylvanas needed the extra numbers to help prolong the war and if the war got to the point where Stormwind was falling to the Horde, I don’t see a strategic reason for Sylvanas to expand the Forsaken numbers and rob the Jailer of souls.

And I’m not sure what you mean by the dreadlords having the same plan because Mal’Ganis didn’t mention Stormwind at all, Varimathras’ cryptic words was more hinting/mocking us as he was very bitter that over his fate, Detheroc was just trying to plunge the factions into a war with one another as the Legion invaded, and the nameless Dreadlord from the Son of the Wolf comic actively sought to recruit Anduin for the Legion, with it being ambiguous if Stormwind was supposed to be apart of that deal or not.

You now that I’ve typed out that I can’t help but wonder how the Dreadlords sabotaged any Legion orders or if any had genuinely defected to the Legion. For example Detheroc not killing Shaw and possessing his corpse like Balnazzar had done to Dathrohan created the very opportunity for the real Shaw to be rescued and help expose him and the nameless dreadlord might have directly delivered Anduin to Zovaal if he had accepted the offer.

On the flipside Balnazzar was permanent killed under the Legion’s cause and by the end Varimathras was clearly done with his masters as he mocked us and hinted at Sylvanas having a dark bargain. After all he clearly wasn’t going to help us because he was very bitter but why bother hinting at anything at all unless he was hoping we would cause some damage to the plan?

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Were the Dreadlords ever working with the Jailer or was the jailer’s plan just one of the many plans that could have come to fruition that would have benefitted the Dreadlords end goals? I don’t think the Dreadlords follow the Legion as much as thier plans have always aligned with Sargeras’s plans. They claimed to be behind Sargeras and the legion and they have a keen interest in us as future allies.

Keep in mind the “supposed” traitor Dreadlord, Lothraxxion has conveniently placed himself within the Army of the Light. That is the next faction to keep an eye on now that Turalyon fills a vacant throne. (I know the accepted theory is that Lothraxxion actually betrayed the Dreadlords, but the preface did say that the Light is arrogant and would accept one of them if they felt they could convert him. The cosmic force they cannot infiltrate is Life. The Dreadlord who defected will probably be Life related.)

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