Yep tanks were the problem

Community General Discussion
42

I’ve shared my thoughts on this issue in another topic thread, The people happy about tank nerfs don’t understand, but I’ll summarize here.

This problem is much deeper than just DPS pulling ahead of tanks or healers struggling to keep up—it’s a reflection of a broader cultural shift in the game. Years ago, MMORPGs like World of Warcraft were about taking your time, strategizing, and working together as a team. Players would carefully plan pulls, use crowd control, and sometimes even wipe and come back stronger, learning from their mistakes.

Nowadays, the mentality has shifted to a relentless “go, go, go” pace, where any delay is met with frustration or hostility. This mindset is toxic to the community and undermines the very essence of what an MMORPG should be—playing with friends, exploring the world, and enjoying the journey, not just rushing to the finish line.

Blizzard’s design choices have fueled this shift by focusing more on esports-style content like Mythic+ that rewards speed and efficiency over teamwork and strategy. While Mythic+ has its place, it’s driven a wedge between different types of players. Those who want to take their time and enjoy the game are often berated or left behind, while the hardcore players push ahead.

A solution could be to create separate Hardcore/Elite realms for those who prefer this fast-paced, high-pressure environment, or adding more options in LFD/LFR that allow players to choose their preferred pace. This way, everyone can play the game the way they enjoy most, without feeling like they’re ruining the experience for others.

The lack of support for casual and midcore players has led many to feel ignored or abandoned by Blizzard. The game used to have content that encouraged cooperative play and social interaction, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside. It’s no wonder that many players, including myself, are looking to games like Ashes of Creation, which promise to bring back the community aspects we all miss.

6 Likes
43

They are normal dungeons, with wonky scaling. A single level 70 can solo them, is really not that deep. The trinity is alive and well in every other content above normal dungeons.

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I’m not sure what’s happening in the replies, but to be honest OP; You’re perfectly fine. Just take your own pace and keep with the healer; not the dps. If the DPS pull a bunch, let em die and vote to kick for “Trying to be tank”. The more we do this (I’m very often on my healer and stick to the tank like glue), the better off life will become.

We do have a slow but noticeable betterment of online communities with the guy PirateSoftware gaining traction. (Streamer). Tho we are still trying to remove the constant toxicity/trolling from the communities we grew up around. Like Tyler1, Asmongold “Roaches”, and many more. The communities these popular players promoted were toxic. I hear the latter guy has chilled out a bunch but who knows.

TL;DR stick with the healer at your own pace. Vote to kick the DPS. Enjoy your time :slight_smile: Most of us healers are chillin with you and your pace, not the dps. We just don’t wanna get vote kicked either lol

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45

Exactly, well normal and heroics are a joke now anyway. Dungeons used to be fun and take a bit of time to get through.

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46

The problem has never been roles. The problem is people.

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47

Is on the player at the end of the day to find a community, not Blizzard.

If you don’t like playing with pugs, do something about it. Complaining on the forums does nothing.

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WoW has changed. If you can’t keep up with the instant gratification Kaffeine Kiddies, then you don’t matter. Everyone plays the META they saw off YT and if you play for fun with your own build, then you’re the worst player. That’s my takeaway from this new generation of players. I’ve been playing since Nov 2005 and can’t even stand to be in a group with other players because of this. Its why I like the follower dungeons and delves even though they need some work.

7 Likes
49

Yeah, I don’t know. Even in a PUG, it’s not asking much to treat people with decency and respect.

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50

100% this I quit doing pve around Legion and can’t stand it anymore. I do each dungeon one or 2 times and never touch it again. Can’t stand recycled content on top of players acting a fool.

I play wow maybe 1 or 2 months per xpack now It’s not the same game it use to be.
Wpvp was my end game and I can barely suggest people play wow now if you like wpvp.

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51

This. Until Blizzard stops refusing to take this problem seriously and STOPS DESIGNING dungeons to allow mass pulls to the next boss it’ll never stop.

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52

Yea only problem is that DPS can vote kick if they don’t get their way. Like in my example when the DPS died trying to rush and be tanks and then kicked the healer for not keeping them alive.

2 Likes
53

Nah that’s a cheap get-out.

Game design has a huge impact on how people play, and unfortunately Blizzard have designed/balanced things so right now low-level DPS can get away with this kind of idiocy, and higher-level ones think they can (but cannot, yet still blame the healer or tank). They didn’t have to do that. It’s not the case in all of WoW. They could very easily design dungeons so playing like that either wasn’t effective or was “designed in” (c.f. FFXIV for example).

Further, Blizzard - admittedly mostly older Blizzard, not current Blizzard, has repeatedly done things which they knew would destroy or damage communities in WoW, and the ability to find communities or support communities, and has never been serious in any of their attempts to let people find new ones.

So this is a game design issue that you can’t just shove away as “on the players”.

54

Been tanks race pulling and DPS chasing after in every one of my runs so… Can’t relate.

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Translated:

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56

I take it you are doing normal dungeons? Lower-level characters are insanely powerful and can easily tank and DPS without a real tank or even healer helping.

It is kinda frustrating how slow some of the tanks were last night when I was leveling my warrior and was still extremely overpowered. I did pull at times to show them how quickly everything dies in the first dungeon and they did ask someone who knew the dungeon to lead so it was w/e. The issue was that they stayed back too far and were acting like sheep DPS that only knew how to follow the tank from caster range.

This exactly. I don’t care about go go go speeding along but I expect you to at least not spend 10+ seconds standing around after each pack when pulling 1 group at a time.

What I hate more are the tanks that pull EVERYTHING from one boss to another, they hardly get aggro most of the time and don’t pay attention to what dungeon they are in. In some dungeons, you can’t really do that with all the casters throwing out AOE and knockback and it gets everyone killed. It’s much better to pull a hallway worth and make sure the group can keep up. Not everyone has the same mobility, it’s pretty rough in some dungeons.

As for healers, I’ve seen so many queue up that hardly heal at all and people die because of it. It’s often really the tanks fault for over pulling AOE mobs, but healers are out of practice in normals and people are signing up for heals and tanks without knowing the basics from what I have seen. I don’t blame them too much though considering how much AOE damage is going out at times. I do feel like many need to get more used to it though, let the DPS use some of their own healing buttons if the tank is in danger from big pulls.

None of this has to do with tank changes at any rate. It’s due to how overpowered low level characters are in normal dungeons. No one wants to waste too much time when they are that overpowered and there is no challenge or opportunity to learn involved with how quick everything dies.

This is just wrong. Tanks are just as fast and still pulling big groups even in heroics. It only gets harder but atm it’s easy af. Most tanks are even stronger after the nerfs compared to DF thanks to hero talents. Many tanks still don’t need much or any healing unless they do huge pulls.

That sounds like a you issue then. Don’t pull a whole room if you can’t handle it. Learn how much you can tank without issues, and how much the group can deal with without issues. As for pulling a ton and losing aggro, it’s a mess atm in normals with low levels around and the scaling is different for everyone. It will come down to personal experience here and will heavily depend on what mobs you are pulling as sometimes it’s a horrible idea to pull big because of the mobs skillset.

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Are you guys really that much against just improving your skills at the game?

58

A lot of people misunderstood OP

They are stating that it’s the DPS who are pulling ahead and racing through the dungeon.

So much so, that it doesn’t even matter how much you nerf or adjust tanks when DPS are gonna pull everything to the next boss with or without the tank.

2 Likes
59

It should be that way this expansion. We are just doing easy content atm, some of the mobs hit hard and have spells that make mass pulls an issue. Once we start doing Mythics people will be forced to slow down unless they are really good.

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I’m in favor of people being polite and accommodating. I’m not in favor of tweaked out narcissists.

2 Likes
61

Heroics are still plenty easy and nobody goes into them wildly overpowered to the point a non-tank can pull the whole place. Learn there.

Quests, events, WQs are all out there and important sources of gear right now. Learn there.

Delves give you a healer buddy if you’re somehow worried that you must have one in your pocket 300% of the time you’re tanking. Learn there.

This wail of tanks ‘needing to learn’ before tackling a +25 key has never made a drip of sense. They can still learn without holding up leveling dungeon groups by staring at a wall and reading about their abilities. Which, ultimately, is an important part of learning any spec. Reading. Don’t need to be in a dungeon to read.