For the sake of learning, they could do a Mythic Learning mode with followers. No loot or anything, just the opportunity to learn the mechanics.
It’s a pipe dream though.
The people insisting Normals can be used for learning are saying Follower dungeons for Normal (the difficulty they operate under) can’t be learned in.
Bad advice
I think that would be an adequate compromise.
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I’ll throw a heal to someone that got bolted and pull aggro because the tank is just holding W and not tagging things and then those types will tell you with zero irony that I’m being unreasonable and I should actually not use the provided dungeon finder and instead form a dedicated pug group to run leveling dungeons because asking them to stop for ten seconds to kill the couple packs they pulled before holding w again is a truly ridiculous request
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I’m just going to be real. It’s selfish, and simply not as efficient and fast as they think it is.
It’s also ignorant about mechanics altogether, because the mobs have specific moves that are designed for one pack, not 3 packs. They are designed to do specific amounts of damage to be manageable per pack. Sure, you can extend that a bit, but again, the total ignorance to what efficiency actual is is staggering. Even ability cd’s can be timed with normal pulls better to make the experience smoother and therefore faster.
These players aren’t even tanking. I don’t even know what it is.
A real tank does he job well, and is a part of the group. His role is to protect, and shield the group form damage, and some of these tanks are the complete opposite. Selfish, give me my loot, keep up with my “fast” pulls. It’s a joke. A real good tank is a stark contrast to this. They would not dare let a mob aggro you.
Sorry, but it’s the truth. Tanks who are making these disorganized, chaotic pulls are bad tanks, and there’s a lot of tanks that also think they’re doing better than what they actually are doing.
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Normally, I’m not a fan of gating, but it might be prudent in dungeons to have step-by-step fights. Basically, you can’t pull the entire dungeon. You can do one or two packs at a time, and the gate won’t open until you finish them off. Probably not something they can implement right now, but for future content, it might be worth looking into.
Tho I think the best route is to simply add a “fast” checkbox to the dungeon finder. People that want to do the dungeon the way it was meant to be played should be able to find each other using the tool too.
And I blame the DPS entirely for this.
I’ve NEVER had an issue following the tank and keeping my aggro under control while ensuring the tank is in the best situation to keep aggro. Standing 40 yards back popping AOE and just standing there like some DPS do, THAT’S the problem.
DPS are not just turrets that pop big numbers, they need to participate and be active in a dungeon, many DPS have NO IDEA what a tank needs to do or how hard it is to keep aggro, nothing about target swapping, no idea to run towards the tank when they pull aggro, they just stand there and die.
Earlier today I had one in Darkflamewhere a mage at the doorway to the last boss, butt pulled mobs on the way in and just stood there as far away as possible doing nothing but damage to the boss while forcing the healer to keep them alive.
And no, I am not about to move the boss out of position to go save one DPS, they need to learn, come into the room, run closer to the tank so I can pull aggro.
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not disagreeing with the title
but i have grown to the just play mentality after experiencing these in TWW especially
whem im dps, the tank rush while shouting at me specifically to dps more
when im as healer, the tank rush, not holding agro, dps gets agro
when im tank, one dps just gogogo and pull more than me
just play and be done i guess
That is what they principally are; the idea of a dps is to stay out of range of mobs or bosses and blast things while the tanks do their job of being a meat shield to keep the mobs or bosses interested in them.
And yes, some players don’t know to run towards the tank to let the threat go to them. Sadly, now and then that doesn’t work for some reason (not being into tanking myself I’m not sure why) and your dps ends up collecting a facefull of floor from nasty mob aoe or whatever.
It may appear there are more bad dps than tanks, but there are more dps than tanks so it tends to be a bit more noticeable. There are bads in both classes and its a game of dice as to which you do or dont get each time that queue pops.
You’d think “don’t attack the mobs while the tank is still gathering them” would be lesson number one in the dummies guide to dps
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Technically you are correct, but at the same time they cannot just always stand there and do that, they need to look around, assess the situation and assist the group, because after all, it is a group effort to beating instanced content.
Correct, and if you get a bad tank you should help them as much as you can. Like how a hunter can use tar, ice and explosive trap to stop or slow down enemies, but I never see it happen. Or a rogue never using tricks, there are evokers who would rather ‘rescue’ the tank than actually using it as a defensive mechanic and now the tank is 60 yards away from the DPS and the evoker might as well be on mars since they cannot heal the DPS.
At least a bad DPS is just going to get themselves killed.
The game simply isn’t designed to make big pulls like that. That is why there’s issues, It’s an attempt at a shortcut. I’d bet a large sum of money, that when developers design these dungeons, it’s specifically to gather up certain mobs together one at a time. Not 3-4 groups and a boss all together.
The simple fact is it’s ignoring mechanics. I bet most of these tanks don’t even know the enemy abilities. I mean after reading some of these comments, I’d say that’s the majority of tanks who make pulls like this.
Can dps be incompetent? Yea, but I think it’s more incompetent to not even understand dungeon composition, act like gigantic pulls are more efficient (they’re not). Act like it’s your world and we just live in it. For a tank to even act like dps is the problem is a red flag. The goal is to get through the dungeon as smoothly as possible. You’re not going to have mythic dungeon level players in random dungeon finder. They’re mostly average players.
If you can make lesser pulls and finish the dungeon 1 minute slower, I mean what in the hell is the big deal? And again, like I said, fast efficient pulls will beat out the huge pulls any day of the week. Have you seen high level mythic runs? Those tanks are it. Are they pulling the whole damn dungeon?
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I have to say that the person saying that the OP should do the follower dungeons IS right and wrong;;
YOU want to speed demon through dungeons you too COULD self make pugs …
do guilds …
Maybe get friends (though the way you play I bet many don’t tolerate either)
or use follower dungeon ///
Long passed time that some of these people learned that their crap answers apply to the too … and the fact that many of them are down right toxic in groups I think it is more to the point …
there is more than JUST you in group … and when doing pugs it is a group task meaning that you need to all work at the same pace …
/q the group and fail to heal them they run here and whine but can’t actually figure out it is a 2 way street and THEY are also the issue
Follower dungeon is not that answer. Why should healers do follower dungeon if Tanks are not good enough to do a pace the group can handle?
This is not the healer fault this is 100 percent tank issue. It is the tank job to get a feel and set the pace what the group can handle. You are not doing your job if you are going too fast for healer.
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Just group kick, reason “Zoomer”
Dungeons are designed to a certain iLVL and skill, and once you surpass the iLVL or the skill, you can start pulling bigger, or do what good players do, run M+ and do higher keys, and even than we still pull 3-4 packs at once in some higher keys.
I’ve tanked M25 keys in the past, I can tell you right now, bigger pulls when people have CD’s and are at full health are far more efficient at clearing content, assuming the players do it right.
And that means the DPS need to do their role correctly, they need to participate in the dungeon more than just a glorified turret, meaning move around, use some CC and interrupts, follow the tank correctly and use their brains, they cannot just be standing there expecting one group pull at a time.
Until you start running higher keys, you really have no idea what you are talking about, and even than you need to heal and DPS in higher keys to really understand what is going on, these complaints, they are nothing but bad DPS whining that the tank is not running a dungeon how they want the dungeon ran.
Go tank, go try and be that one pull Andy, sese how far that gets you.
I’m a millennial and my guild and those I play with know how mad I am when I run premade group content, it’s not the zoomers that are doing this, it’s, what is it, oh yeh, skilled players.
And neither is yours. So quit wasting mine.
Incorrect but ok whatever
Hey, dude, these are normal instances. They are intended for people to be okay standing in fire as long as they don’t /sit and pack a bowl.
I think you got carried away with yourself yo.
because we want to level fast, i dont want to be stuck forever leveling 1 char I have things to do in my life