First time posting on the forums over anything my two cents is i wouldn't mind this nerf if they would just go back to the exp rewards in quests and dungeons pre patch the zone scaling is great i love it but the exp nerf to quests and dungeons is bloody terrible period they fixed out leveling zones with scaling so why nerf exp to all content with the patch?
1 Like
Nice Its nice to know you guys nerfed the only way to level quickly. Gotta sell those boost huh? Not getting them bonuses? Quarterlys looking sad? No need answer is painfully obvouis.
2 Likes
02/14/2018 05:34 PMPosted by ViereauxThat would fly, except: I was getting a level per every 2 dungeons yesterday, today I was getting like 25% per dungeon... and that's with an even closer level difference as my 110 is running my 90s level character versus when I was level 60-90 before the nerf.02/14/2018 05:27 PMPosted by KheradinFor everyone thinking the the level disparity between two characters in a dungeon never affected XP gains on the low-level character, here's old posts about it:
Don't pay any attention to that nonsense. It always affected XP as in, you always got less XP than if you solo killed dungeon mobs by yourself than if you got power-levelled or even killed them in a group. This is not the same thing as the dramatic cut in XP they just did.
Nor is this the result of a "bug". It is a straight up nert to power leveling which post 7.3.5 worked roughly the same it did before, which is apparently too fast for a publicly traded company that brags about how many minutes per day it can milk from it's customers. They only care about how many minutes they can steal from you, not whether you are enjoying the time you put in.
1 Like
02/14/2018 05:34 PMPosted by ViereauxThat would fly, except: I was getting a level per every 2 dungeons yesterday, today I was getting like 25% per dungeon... and that's with an even closer level difference as my 110 is running my 90s level character versus when I was level 60-90 before the nerf.02/14/2018 05:27 PMPosted by KheradinFor everyone thinking the the level disparity between two characters in a dungeon never affected XP gains on the low-level character, here's old posts about it:
In the old discussions where players asked about powerleveling, there's descriptions of how it works.
The greater the disparity in levels, the less XP the low-level character will receive. For example, a level 100 running a level 20 in Deadmines would mean the level 20 received say 20 XP per kill. If that level 100 ran a level 50 in Maraudon, they'd receive 45 XP per mob.
With everything getting level scaled, I could see how it would be easy for a bug to get introduced that messed with an old level formula.
02/14/2018 05:45 PMPosted by AnderanIt is a straight up nert to power leveling which post 7.3.5 worked roughly the same it did before,
Having used stockades many times to level up from 15 to 25, I can confirm this is the case. A level per 2 clears was about the norm until you caped the dungeon and had to move on. It's been halved at best.
What I don't get is why this was patched so quickly. Was it simply easier to implement a patch for this over the issues that have been around for longer?
We haven't seen a word on Forced Personal Loot in old solo dungeons, and that thread has 1600+ comments alone.
It's one of the things that's a bit disheartening. This week, we've seen you guys rise up to strike down two alternative leveling methods very quickly. When will get get these other issues solved?
Most importantly, why does the Jeweled Onyx Panther increase my size when I mount up on it when none of the others do?
We haven't seen a word on Forced Personal Loot in old solo dungeons, and that thread has 1600+ comments alone.
It's one of the things that's a bit disheartening. This week, we've seen you guys rise up to strike down two alternative leveling methods very quickly. When will get get these other issues solved?
Most importantly, why does the Jeweled Onyx Panther increase my size when I mount up on it when none of the others do?
02/14/2018 05:51 PMPosted by LimelightsWhat I don't get is why this was patched so quickly. Was it simply easier to implement a patch for this over the issues that have been around for longer?
People found a way not to buy level boosts. Like Refer a friend, it had to be fixed so sales of $60 level boosts could continue.
Edit: It is the next step in a series of stupid assed decisions Blizzard has decided to make on behalf of their players, despite us not wanting it.
1 Like
Nobody believes all that you just said Ornix.
02/14/2018 05:34 PMPosted by Viereaux... That would fly, except: I was getting a level per every 2 dungeons yesterday, today I was getting like 25% per dungeon... and that's with an even closer level difference as my 110 is running my 90s level character versus when I was level 60-90 before the nerf.
In the old discussions where players asked about powerleveling, there's descriptions of how it works.
The greater the disparity in levels, the less XP the low-level character will receive. For example, a level 100 running a level 20 in Deadmines would mean the level 20 received say 20 XP per kill. If that level 100 ran a level 50 in Maraudon, they'd receive 45 XP per mob.
With everything getting level scaled, I could see how it would be easy for a bug to get introduced that messed with an level old formula.
I will repeat for the people confused about this issue. The XP penalty was small in the past because as I and many others will tell you, power leveling has been viable for YEARS. With max level characters power leveling characters as low as can get in a dungeon.
There was no sudden bump in experience from power levelling that happened with 7.3.5 ergo THERE WAS NO BUG. Prior to 7.3.5 you could level a level 20 in a dungeon with a 110 and get reasonably good XP this held true AFTER 7.3.5 as well and it didn't suddenly become a huge amount of XP.
This is a dramatic hit to dungeon XP with a higher level character compared to pre 7.3.5 for years and even post 7.3.5.
TLDR: Power leveling was in fact a thing for YEARS and this is nerfing something that has been in the game forever and was in no way the result of people getting too much XP after 7.3.5 hit. It was basically the same before and after until now.
The scaling that was introduced to the open world is a good change, the zones now being able to be completed as a whole is fun. However I am wondering why heirlooms were nerfed, even if it was a small amount of stats. If some equips heirlooms shouldn't it be assumed that they do not want to spend too much time through the leveling process? i realize there is a point where you can level too fast, but if the heirlooms could have the stats increased or the XP amount increased so as to slightly counter the leveling speed slow down, I think most would appreciate it.
Heirlooms already have a barrier to prevent new players from acquiring them, the gold price for them and their upgrade tokens, are in place for a reason. For those of us who have leveled many different characters, especially of each class, leveling has become tedious and dull, as we have seen the content many times. I will say the 1-60 content is not too bad, however most of 60-90 is rough.
If the goal is to improve the new player experience, then buffing heirlooms should not hinder that.
Heirlooms already have a barrier to prevent new players from acquiring them, the gold price for them and their upgrade tokens, are in place for a reason. For those of us who have leveled many different characters, especially of each class, leveling has become tedious and dull, as we have seen the content many times. I will say the 1-60 content is not too bad, however most of 60-90 is rough.
If the goal is to improve the new player experience, then buffing heirlooms should not hinder that.
02/14/2018 05:53 PMPosted by QaletaqqaPeople found a way not to buy level boosts. Like Refer a friend, it had to be fixed so sales of $60 level boosts could continue.
except buying boost doesnt give you the heritage armor this is the critical issue here.. everything is being turn down and slowdown to make leveling "experience" (oh the joy) the slowest possible by some reason.
Change xp gains to what they were just 2 months ago so it is fun again to level a character. the rate and length it takes now is way too boring and slow. yes, it makes us play more which you like, but I don't like the new invented game experience.
1 Like
02/14/2018 04:34 PMPosted by MoomageStop caveing.
If it ain't broke, dont fix it.
I've leveled 3 toons post patch...I started pvp'ing instead of dungeon queueing because it was faster and i got more xp usually
Dungeon experience gain was broken
02/14/2018 04:19 PMPosted by Ornyx
As always, we appreciate your feedback and will continue to keep a close eye on the pacing of the leveling experience in 7.3.5 and beyond.
Ok then, here's my feedback. I'm a vet from the BC days and have been MMO grinding since 2001 on other games.
These changes have obviously been driven, even if the coding devs don't realize it, by a push on high to increase Boost sales.
My pattern every xpac had been to work on my main raider until they were at the "nothing to do but weekly raid (or M+) progression" and at that point work on my alts when not raiding.
Usually it is with a focus on learning each of the classes again to see if I want to switch mains next xpac. I started doing that again this xpac in December but with the announced changes for 7.3.5 I held off for the most part thinking I liked what I heard. Big mistake on my part.
With me changing to a new guild for Legion, on a different server (a bunch of us decided to move back here from another game) I have none of my leveled alts in the server I'm on so I'm starting from scratch.
Gone are the days when I had the disposable income to xfer a bunch of alts to a new server.
But if that's the case then also gone are the days when I can afford to boost multiple alts. Server xfers were too expensive already ... boost costs are ridiculous. $25-60US to have you throw a SQL query? I'll buy a full new game on my PS4 and forget about WoW alts for that kind of cash.
Anyway so that leaves my final point ... if I and people in similar boats aren't going to dump $ on boosts and leveling continues to be this slow grind, then it will affect player retention & acquisition.
I DON'T mind heritage armor requiring an alt leveled from 1-100. That's the right way to do things ... reward for effort.
I DON'T mind heirlooms no longer being instantly better stats than top end gear drops. That's the right way to reward the desire for XP at the cost of performing slightly worse than someone who is really trying to max their gear constantly.
I DON'T mind outdoor questing being competitive on running dungeons.
I DON'T mind higher level toons nerfing XP. It still provides some benefit but shouldn't be a main method.
However I do mind that even with the questing buff that leveling is significantly slower than it was before this. Especially with 110 (soon 120) levels to grind.
The idea that heirlooms and dungeons brought the time to reach 1-110 down to what 1-60 was at the end of Classic / beginning of BC was the right idea. The mechanics behind it aren't important, the idea that it shouldn't proportionately take longer and longer to level. Especially for people who have seen that content literally dozens of times.
The concept behind the dungeon scaling made sense but the execution not taking the additional time into account, not just 1-60 but even more 60-100, didn't work. I enjoy putting effort into the dungeon I'm in and but feeling like I could AFK and no one would notice.
But ... I don't enjoy it enough to do 2-3 more dungeons for the same reward. WoW has long been about end game ... that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the sprucing up if I'll content, I do, but the goals remain the same.
So, constructively, what would I like to see?
Some ideas:
* boost dungeon experience ... either directly in mobs/bosses (which take much longer to kill now) or repeatable quests or boosting rewards (more than today).
* World quest style rewards on competing quest chains (yes, more quest XP, I've done a couple 1-60 with the new system now and it's still feeling lacking)
* end game content dropping BoA items to speed up alt leveling (maybe rep, too, like in MoP). Potions/insignias.
2) Heirloom upgrades that scale based on the number of max level toons we have. Say 1% per 110 (today) to a Max of 50% additional. "You have 10+ 110 toons? Here, have another 50% XP because you obviously have seen the content". First time players are going to see all that stuff you want them to see, repeat players get a boost each time they repeat. Maybe make these BoA enchants that only work on heirlooms, solving another problem at the same time.
I don't mean to say all of these are needed. Just that there are many options available to address things.
PS. I don't expect I'd ever have RAFed again anyway, did it a couple of times, but that nerf really impacted the ability to get a person not convinced on WoW to try it. A middle ground there, like a limited number of XP pots (enough to get 1 too to 100 at least with double XP) would be really good for that program.
1 Like
<span class="truncated">...</span>
In the old discussions where players asked about powerleveling, there's descriptions of how it works.
The greater the disparity in levels, the less XP the low-level character will receive. For example, a level 100 running a level 20 in Deadmines would mean the level 20 received say 20 XP per kill. If that level 100 ran a level 50 in Maraudon, they'd receive 45 XP per mob.
With everything getting level scaled, I could see how it would be easy for a bug to get introduced that messed with an level old formula.
I will repeat for the people confused about this issue. The XP penalty was small in the past because as I and many others will tell you, power leveling has been viable for YEARS. With max level characters power leveling characters as low as can get in a dungeon.
There was no sudden bump in experience from power levelling that happened with 7.3.5 ergo THERE WAS NO BUG. Prior to 7.3.5 you could level a level 20 in a dungeon with a 110 and get reasonably good XP this held true AFTER 7.3.5 as well and it didn't suddenly become a huge amount of XP.
This is a dramatic hit to dungeon XP with a higher level character compared to pre 7.3.5 for years and even post 7.3.5.
TLDR: Power leveling was in fact a thing for YEARS and this is nerfing something that has been in the game forever and was in no way the result of people getting too much XP after 7.3.5 hit. It was basically the same before and after until now.
However tokens have not been here forever. Tokens being introduced changes everything.
What you want is to power level people with gold (money) cutting off the need for boosts and instead filling players bags with gold ( money)
Pretty much sums it up. Doesn't matter, they still have one up on ya.
Boosts were only largely introduced to combat power leveling services from 3rd partys. Tokens to combat gold selling. Once again though its OK for players to make the money from offering the service but if the creators of the game sell these services, they are greedy?
I was somewhat excited about the level scaling at first, the ability to enjoy a wider range of dungeons as you leveled sounded like a good idea and, with heirloom gear, regular questing provided enough XP to make the journey to max level for the ump-tenth time seem bearable.
I look at my now level 40 Nightborne mage and I can't help but think how little fun I've had so far and how tempting that 110 boost from my pre-order looks even though I want the heritage armor.
Want to make leveling more fun and engaging? I'm all for that, but simply slowing the process down and calling it a day is not engaging. This is tedious.
I look at my now level 40 Nightborne mage and I can't help but think how little fun I've had so far and how tempting that 110 boost from my pre-order looks even though I want the heritage armor.
Want to make leveling more fun and engaging? I'm all for that, but simply slowing the process down and calling it a day is not engaging. This is tedious.
1 Like
<span class="truncated">...</span>
In the old discussions where players asked about powerleveling, there's descriptions of how it works.
The greater the disparity in levels, the less XP the low-level character will receive. For example, a level 100 running a level 20 in Deadmines would mean the level 20 received say 20 XP per kill. If that level 100 ran a level 50 in Maraudon, they'd receive 45 XP per mob.
With everything getting level scaled, I could see how it would be easy for a bug to get introduced that messed with an level old formula.
I will repeat for the people confused about this issue. The XP penalty was small in the past because as I and many others will tell you, power leveling has been viable for YEARS. With max level characters power leveling characters as low as can get in a dungeon.
There was no sudden bump in experience from power levelling that happened with 7.3.5 ergo THERE WAS NO BUG. Prior to 7.3.5 you could level a level 20 in a dungeon with a 110 and get reasonably good XP this held true AFTER 7.3.5 as well and it didn't suddenly become a huge amount of XP.
This is a dramatic hit to dungeon XP with a higher level character compared to pre 7.3.5 for years and even post 7.3.5.
TLDR: Power leveling was in fact a thing for YEARS and this is nerfing something that has been in the game forever and was in no way the result of people getting too much XP after 7.3.5 hit. It was basically the same before and after until now.
It's not been like this for years. Yesterday when I ran a level 27 through Deadmines I was really surprised that mob kills were giving 200+ XP per kill and 4000+ XP for a boss. I thought that seemed out of whack at the time, gaining 2 levels in one run. Today I ran another low-level and the mob kills were down to 30 XP per kill which seemed more in line with my memory.
Go read the posts I put up. Heck, here's quote from a 2016 discussion:
"a higher level character running a lower level character through dungeons actually hurts the xp gain for the lower level."
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20745124980
The title of this 2014 discussion spells it out: Why is Powerleveling Dead?
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/11582368247
02/14/2018 06:01 PMPosted by RawhýdeI DON'T mind heritage armor requiring an alt leveled from 1-100. That's the right way to do things ... reward for effort.
except some altoholic already did this for many times already.. there's no "effort" in leveling a new character for 13th time.
no such thing as effort here on this one.. it's tedious and poorly executed.
So until like two days ago I was leveling in a really fast way, where I felt like everything was being as I was used to and I felt really close to getting to 80 with my Nightborne Mage... and then I got to 70.
Suddenly it became Black Desert Online, where I can't see the horizon anymore and I feel like it will take a month to get to 80.
Suddenly it became Black Desert Online, where I can't see the horizon anymore and I feel like it will take a month to get to 80.
1 Like
So, seems like the bonus XP from completing a random dungeons is around 4x? My 75 Priest was getting around 11-12k bonus, now it's 46k. Probably different numbers in different brackets though.