I dont know if they consider occasional or common IoR procs in any game mode. As normal raid gets easy, you quickly move to Heroic, once thats done Mythic raid next or M+ thats infinitely scaleable.
For pvp IoR Id imagine is useful often in Rated BGs but about useless for Arena 2s and 3s and actually useless in Solo Arena(solo shuffle). As others have mentioned pve and pvp should be tuned separately
Yea i can honestly see IoR being decent in rated pvp bgsâs. However i dont pvp anymore so i know alot less about that.
However the devs have said before they wont balance ret pve because of IoR. Which if thats the case why didnât they buff us abit?
Im pretty sure they know ret will lose some dps. Now i dont think well be bottom, more than likely well end up around lower middle for pve.
What i dont understand is nothing happening for templar. Even if i disagree with herald nerfs i understand it.
If TWW tuning is like DF, expect some small aura buff occasionally unless the Devs fixed or think they fixed the scaling issue. Probably another ST buff like in DF too(hopefully) for either pvp specifically or all Rets. Shouldnt need 5 weeks of nerfs because there is no 11.0.7 rework like in DFs 10.0.7. I expect Ret changes to be very minor before 12.0.0.
I certainly do not expect most of my pvp concerns to be addressed, although I was happy to hear a talent was being added to allow Divine Shield to ignore Forbearance and only be limited by its CD. Several 11.5 changes are QoL addressing changes for paladins, some are even suppose to be pvp related like making BoF cast on another friendly target automatically, but it might not be someone who needs it, or another to make BoF cast for 3 seconds when steed is used. Most pvpers that talked about automatic BoF with Steed pointed out the dont always need BoF during Steed and would miss out on the small movement speed from solely using casted BoF.
now we wait till people stop dying in raids, and to ret fall back to 10th+ then we will get a 3% all damage buff, like they did consistently in dragonflight.
i liked templar better than herald, but i tend to min-max in what is currently better for the content i do, so im playing herald and feels solid, ST is miles behind a lot of classes but its competitive on dungeons with aoe / cleave.
what surprises me the most about this is that we were already nerfed with mastery scaling, now we get a direct damage nerf into pretty much the ability that makes herald pull ahead right now, and templar (which after the fix of the bug felt very dull to play again), with hammer of light hitting like a double tick of dawnlight (which is a passive dot), feels very bad for the ability that should hit like a freaking truck and hits like a wet noodle
i donât know what is going to happen, but blizzard insists into always nerfing us after the first days / weeks of a new content drop, feels like they donât even know that those logs are bloated by people dying and giving the rets free wingsâŚlike they create the freaking ability and doesnât even put it in consideration? thats so bad in so many ways
now, if they waited like 3/4 weeks and we were dominating everything with dawnlight hitting for 1m a tick, ok, it was time for a nerf, but i highly doubt that this would ever happen. meanwhile, arcane, fury, enhance, those classes can burst like twice our damage in single target, and its fine! 
Lol thatâs whit I said, and many paladin fanbois violently responded that paladin isnât getting a rework in 11.0.5
Because we previously scaled like $#!+, thatâs why they constantly tuned us. Why do people not understand this basic concept??
Not true. Recent data shows us 3rd IIRC. Thatâs not âmiles behind a lot of classes.â
Which was absolutely warranted. It was so damn good that it outpaced our Primary Stat, Strength and players were ditching higher level gear because it didnât have Mastery on it. Thatâs an absolute no-no. Despite the meager 10% nerf, Mastery is still our best Secondary Stat by a large margin.
I do. Benmarch and I called it at the beginning: weâre gonna be just fine, wait and be patient. Scaling is the best thing that can happen to a spec and we scale very, VERY well.
Dude, not only did the notes come out days ago about them getting the nerf bat----they just got the nerf bat upside their heads AGAIN literally hours before the new patch.
Youâve rarely ever seen that.
I hate to break it to you guys but this is every xpac. First few weeks we start out not even amazing but just on par, after those few weeks we get nerfed into the ground especially for PVE and if weâre lucky we sometimes get buffed at the end of the xpac. Really hoping itâs not like that this xpac but I have a feeling somebody whoâs working on balancing got bullied by a ret pally in pvp or were always shattered on damage meters by a ret paladin and theyâve stuck themselves in charge of paladins.
Not current situation
Not current situation and actually the exact opposite of what was happening in DF.
Demonstrably false by the buffs we got and that are documented by patch notes and they werenât at the end of he patches either.
So yeah, youâre just straight up wrong here.
Ohh, yeah different balancing team, thatâs where your dissonance is coming from.
This is so tone deaf to the patch note.
How can you unironically say that?
You canât have read the patch notes for those classes to hold such an ignorant view.
Evidently Blizz is not fine with it if they were nerfed, not once but twice.
You sound ridiculousâŚ
and you know what is that called? bandaid fix, everyone knew and commented, and gave feedback about how bad ret was scalling after the rework, its not a basic concept, its lazy design for not wanting to fix the core problem.
as warcraftlogs is down right now, i canât say for sure, but im talking about exclusively single target encounters, there are a lot of padding with adds on a lot of bosses, and another thing that you probably forgot: instrument of retribution.
when we fall to 10th+, you will see the difference, since people will stop dying and giving us free wings.
and now checking wowhead, we are currently 9th on pure single target, that is good for you? guess its not that great eh?
fair enough, but its still a nerf, im not talking that wasnt needed, im talking about having been nerfed two times already, and the dawnlight nerf was completely non sense imo, and not doing anything on templar is bad as well.
thats true, but as i said before, it doesnât justify pre nerfing something that we donât even know how it will go, with tiers and higher gear, if its op when it happen, THEN it should be nerfed, not now with 1 week of content.
enhance wasnt touched (as far as i remember), i dont know about warriors but our arcane mage said the nerfs are not that bad, it shouldnât change much, so those classes already strong on ST, and we are not (as i showed you before), so the nerf still makes no sense and guts us even more on single target which is what we are currently lacking right now
(Spits his drink on the computer board)
Waitwhat??? You called excellent scaling âA band aid fixâ? âA band aid fixâ??? 
whistles Then I got nuthinâ for ya, dude. Really.
OkayâŚ
Oh GeezusâŚ
Soooo, you think 350K DoT tics are acceptable???
Then you must be new to WoW, because blizz has been doing this since the beginning of time.
What forums are YOU reading??? Both on Warrior and Mage forums have many players crying like babies from their nerfsâŚjust like here on the paladin forum.
Seriously. Like, on the realâŚ
what excelent scalling? did you play dragonflight bro? seriously? on DF having 520 or 540 ilvl felt almost the same, jesus
maybe, playing paladin for the last 14 years, so you agree with blizzard reasoning?
and why it shouldnât be? its the core damaging ability for the class, also do you think its ok for hammer of light having to use 5hp and hitting for like 1 and a half templar verdict? probably yes
im not reading foruns, im giving feedback from the players i play with, which i consider to be good.
and you didnât say anything about us being 9th on single target, guess its fine for you too.
ignorant view? they got nerfed but their single was already great, it will not drastically change after it, but meanwhile rets are bloated by padding and instrument and you guys think nerfing it was fine, lol, what a time to see this forums again
JV was awesome when they changed it to 3hp and what, 15-20% heal? then they nerfed the heal down to 3% and made it useless. it had a good 6month run
Iâm talking NOW! We have excellent scaling NOW!! Players dying slightly less in raid or M+ wonât matter because NOW we scale very well and it will compensate for lack of deaths by other players.
Hell yeah. Iâd rather know NOW about our nerfs as opposed to getting used to a spell and THEN getting nerfed at the last minute and get totally frustrated. Just go ask Warriors and MagesâŚ
whistles Okay. Iâm done with this part of the conversation. NextâŚ
So I guess you want to remain ignorant from the rest of the player base? Got it. 
and nothing about us being 9th on single target, guess im done as well, good riddance!
proved, you donât know hot to read
Are you watching the Race to World First smart a$$, did you see the ret paladin performance on mythic? thatâs what i was talking about⌠mr we need the nerf⌠DKs and warriors are broken and pallys are at buttom⌠next time shut the mouth if you donât know about something.
And why am I arguing with a nobody? 0 progress on Raid, 0 on m+⌠lol⌠just check my performance and donât you dear to talk to me until you donât get the same progress
Who gives a crap. Data is NOT based on one or two paladins on Worldâs First, dumb@$$.
WaitâŚM+ literally just started this week and you think you have bragging rights??? My IO was higher than YOURS in DF s3 and 4.
Clown.
Youâre ignoring the fact they are nerfing them and worst actively portraying it as if they were left untouched.
You either didnât read or youâre leaving that out deliberately.
If youâre not being ignorant then youâre being deceptive.
Those are YOUR wordsâŚ
CLEARLY itâs NOT fine if they are nerfing them, not once, but TWICE in the span of 1 reset.
Your opinion is untrustworthy because you just showed that you, at best, donât read and at worst, are willing to deliberately not give the full context when itâs inconvenient to you.
LOL this is the most dumb answer ever, they took the best performance characters to run the world first, ret only has Dev aura atm.
No you donât, if you see the logs I barely played paladin DF S4, but if you see in detail DFs3 my performance is 99.1 in 3,099.81 against your 95.5 in 3,129.97 (even with blue med you carry)? I saw your logsâŚ
yes, Iâm playing this season and you donât , so shut the mouth when Iâm writing about ret nerfs in this season, you Dumb@$$, you talk about data with blue parses⌠LOL
Are you truly insane???
Accurate data is NOT based on a couple of people, no matter how good they may be.
So? My IO is STILL higher than yours in either season. You donât get bragging rights because you have a lower IO than mine OR just because you started doing M+ in the very first week.
What an absolute clown. Git gud.