More unpredictable for sure. Specs just preform wildly different due to pvp modifiers. In the first 3 days of 10.0.7, Ret pvp and pve was about the same, both spectacular. Most of the pvp nerfs were added over the next 5 weeks.
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Do you know how to read? am i said we performance unwell? am I said we areât top dps? I said there are more classes performing better and they got something in change for nerfs, and Dawnlight damage reduced by 15% by the way⌠Holy Jesus face palm
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If a nerf to the DoT was needed, they could have compensated with buffing our FV. The tick shouldnt be doing FV damage, but the problem was FV does Judgment damage instead of proper spender damage.
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Are you not listening??? We donât need to be top dps. Have you actually seen than data??? Weâre among the top dps specs, around 5th or 6th.
Not many. And they got nerfed harder than us.
We donât need it. Weâre going to scale well. Until data shows us lagging behindâŚ
Which comes out to about maybe 2% overall now. That $#+ means nothing as we get more gear and scale higher.
Stop dooming and glooming.
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Though I have no problem getting a buff to FV, I donât know if itâs actually need right now. IIRC, we actually placed 3rd in Single Target recently.
Thatâs extremely good.
Edit:
Just to add to this conversation, Arcane Mages and Fury Warriors just got the nerf bat AGAIN!
This is why you donât want to be number 1 because youâll be on Blizzardâs radar.
Not a place you want to be.
3rd in ST for PvE, thats tremendous, happy to hear it. Pvp specific nerfs dont currently have that be true for Ret pvp.
A pvp modification Ret needs for pvp might be the play instead of a modifier for pve that also affects pvp if it is too strong in pve. Ret has too many pvp nerfs currently to be looked at for pvp specific nerfs. It has had pve nerfs that nerfed it more as a innocent bystander.
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Again, no argument. PvP is a totally different animal. But itâs the PvP modifiers thatâs affecting the class.
Bingo!
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Sorry for the over-explanation or emphasis that my concerns are a pvp issue. Lots of folks have attacked me for my opinions because they dont know pvp and didnât know it was a pvp specific concern.
Nah. You should always keep mentioning it. Hard heads like myself keep forgetting that PvE isnât the only game in town. PvPâers have legit concerns.
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thanks. My Ret is shelved until I see some fixes. In unrelated news, I have 11 ccs on my MM.
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The ret nerf realistically wasnât necessary. Its just devs with ear muffs on.
If they would just delete Instrument of Retribution we would be 10000x easier to balance.
God i hate that ability. Since its inception all it has ever done is cause retribution hella problems.
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Its got such a good name though 
It does, shame its an ability that hurts us.
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Honest question: Is ret that bad for you??
Again, I donât PvP (should get back into it) but from certain videos Iâve seen from guys like LvLaden and Savix, they are chewing gum and whupping @$$ in PvP, and theyâre fresh out of gum.
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Is it replacing Crusade at bad times or something, whats the problem with IoR? Im pve illiterate about some things. Been pvping since SL mostly so help me understand.
LV just posted a video I think last night that talks about how bad Ret gameplay has gotten, and if anyone could make it work it is him.
The problem with it is it inflates rets dps.
However when people learn the fight and dont die as much we lose out on those procs.
That would be fine, if blizz didnât balance us during the first week as realistically it wont last.
So in the end we get a nerf like what were about to get, while also loosng dps cus less procs from it.
Essentially it makes it so ret is either OP or underperforming. It would be far easier to delete this ability which is only useful during the initial phase of new raids.
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Yeah, itâs funny. Heâs saying how ret has gotten taken down a peg but at the end of the video, heâs doing top damage and kills.
Go figureâ 
For instance, and i only dove into one fight, i had 45 seconds of wings because of Instrument of Retribution.
That is a insane amount of time and dps. All of which will be gone in the next few weeks.
So now i get a nerf, AND i miss out on that dps. Which will set me back quite abit. Thats essentially why i hate Instrument of Retribution lol. Id rather it be more consistent.
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Plenty of my problems with Ret LV made his career while suffering, so he is an amazing player.
My chief Ret pvp complaints:
BoP anyone you cant Blessing of Spellwarding anyone for 4 or 5 min depending on talents.
Blessing of Spellwarding wards 0 spells that are CC but BoP removes physical stuns, inconsistent.
The above blessing are removed by instant cast Tranquilizing Shots from hunters like me every 30 seconds or, in addition to Divine Shield, removed early by dispell casts on 1 min CD by almost everyone else.
âŚand Rets dispell got removed from the game
Pvp specific nerfs are on everything passive or pressed from heals to damage and even most pvp talents are nerfed 50-80% of what they were in SL. In pve a AW WoG might heal for half your health, WoG and Instant cast FoL heals for 1/16th of your health or were at least in DF for pvp, that may have been improved by a few % for healing.
Ret and all paladins are visually telegraphed with AW or Crusade and Steed. When you turn yellow you get stunned, kited, feared, ectâŚwhen you steed you get snared or slowed until you BoF then you get stuned or feared.
Fall protective tools are your biggest tools. If you recieve a knockback you may live if ground is beneath you if you have BoP or Divine Shield at the ready. If you have Forbearance you just die as gliders cannot be used in rated pvp. No spacebar save like DH and Evokers, no disengage, slowfall, levitate ect.
The list goes on and on. No MS, no instant mobility, no invisibility, no disarm, ect. Lots of tools all used regularly by a single spec are simultaneously absent for Ret without the tuning to enable off healing or average damage.
Almost forgot CC. If you get kicked on Repentance your likely to die, it is holy magic school, same goes for Searing Glare(pvp talent), get kicked you will regret it. Blinding light, if this is used all enemies hit will have all of your teams DoTs removed and youll get angry whispers, your team is not placated if you tell them you did it so you could live longer. Hammer of Justice, surprisingly it is magical and thus, dispelled very often.
As I mentioned earlier, my MM has 11 CCs including 1 from a pvp talent, they are all useful, none remove DoTs from enemies, some add silence or reduced healing done or damage or outright kill someone as 2 are knockbacks.
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