Well yeah I don’t find myself to be a good player per se. I play casually (except the holidays). The issue I’m stating is that for newer players or for players that aren’t that good, there’s no path for them to learn/get better or enter the mythics/raiding scene.
And I get joining a guild is an option BUT a lot of players don’t want to wait for guild to log on or scheduled raiding/mythics day; they want to hop in, play, hop out NSA. But if low tier mythic runs are being cut off from these players because bad players who whale and do bad is inflating minimum ilvl score, it’s clearly a problem.
Deflecting the problem back at people complaining does little to address this issue at all.
No I read it. Pointing out that people use ilvl, even though they might not be as skilled and do lower dps then someone who is more skilled but lower ilvl like you said, cause it’s a tool to use.
Picking higher ilvl, usually not always, gives a better result.
Make it on your time then and make the group yourself, if you want to do something, be the one to start it. It’s something one of my old guild leaders told me.
Question for you:is there a solution to this problem? Rio may have inflated it but even with that gone, ilvl is still going to be something people buy up do to boes or pvp or whatever.
Just saying invite randomly wont work either since people like to build a group comp they want for a dungeon or raid.
Banning toxic behavior might also not be a good idea since toxic behavior could be a lot of give and take.
@Yukis thing is I never suggested banning toxic players. I’m just acknowledging there is a problem instead of just being a jerk and telling the OP to git gud (not what you did, just generally saying) or saying “Just do this.” Hosting a group doesn’t fix the issue for players who want to hop in quickly and hop out quickly no strings attached.
I’m sure not everyone is like this but the only person like that in my guild literally thinks ALL PUGS are brain dead. Which really isn’t true. I’ve actually had a lot of great experiences with PUGs for raids/LFR/mythics that didn’t mention any requirements in ilvl or io score. And this is pushing up high mythics. For sure there are terrible players you just can’t deal with as they will NEVER learn but ppl also can’t deny this system validates those very toxic players. I’m not asking for solutions because I’ve already stated to OP what the solution is, I’m just stating OP is not wrong in his complaints.
Much of the game/community is turning toxic, unrewarding & unfulfilling. Being micromanaged in a game is never fun, WOW use to have a good community been going down hill for a while I feel this is just direct reflection the Activision & Devs project and the game reflects. Been Playing MMORPGs since they have been around the quality and attitude of the gamer has also changed over the years, more aggressive less friendly, and has less patience for their fellow gamer. Just my 2 cents.
RaiderIO actually has nothing to do with ilvl, so it fixes this problem entirely. If you can’t get invited to groups, try a healing role. Or, make your own group.
If you are upset that people with more experience are getting invited to groups over you, that’s on you. There’s nothing wrong with taking people to groups that have experience.
I mean I’m gonna say it straight up, my IO score isn’t that high because I play casually; I’m definitely going to stack uch higher score during the holidays since I can actually play more. This isn’t always the case obviously but in majority of the cases I’m beating people with significantly higher IO score than me, significantly higher ilvl score; and I realize this may not mean much since I’m pugging mostly and the people I’m comparing my metrics with may just be bad as well. Yes, these are ways to “vet” players you don’t know. But it’s far from being good because as long as you’re not straight up garbage facerolling and following your basic core rotation, you will rack up decent IO score for a given mythic. The difference is io score is also built up on like a rating score (I guess similarly to MMR) based on which mythic+ you’ve completed.
So again, newer players whom this affects the most won’t have a chance to build up their IO score. Obviously there’s plenty of “chill groups” who don’t care about io or ilvl, but this problematic culture exists.
It should also be stated I’m having 0 problems finding groups for high mythics and raids but it doesn’t take a genius to realize the raiding scene is just not friendly for newer players and it has nothing to do with learning mechanics, it has to do with a predetermined numeric value since they haven’t racked up the io score. those of us trying to get friends to play the game is gonna have a harder time to get entry level players to join and this is the issue here. It especially hurts for those of us trying to get friends to try WoW.
You keep bringing up new players, and not to sound insensitive, but why would I care about that? I play this game with like-minded people. I don’t play this game to teach people the basics. That isn’t what I enjoy doing and if you plan on inferring that I should then this conversation isn’t going to go anywhere pleasant. If all the people who came on here complaining about .io grouped up with each other they’d have no problems at all finding groups regardless of their experience or skill. Fact is most of them are just hypocrites: its broken when they get rejected but they’ll damn sure take high ilvl and .io scores when they’re in the position to.
It is really this simple. Everyone complaining and whining about RaiderIO wants to be carried. They want to get into groups without the leaders of said groups knowing what kind of experience they have, and that isn’t cool.
Stop your crying, people. Make your own groups, JUST LIKE THE PEOPLE WHO YOU WANT TO CARRY YOU have done.
Nobody is asking you to teach new players. Use the context and actually use your head… because now you’re just arguing about a problem that doesn’t affect you but you’re talking like the problem isn’t legitimate. Things don’t have to be always on the hyper polarized opposite ends. Not everything has to be a hard left or a hard right. And it’s interesting you respond with “I’m not here to teach new players” after your io score/ilvl score to vet player arguments get derailed because those scores don’t actually measure your skill. Doing the bare minimum and putting a bit of a time sink into mythics will get you a good io score. Period.
And I don’t disagree with Malmsteen TBH but if you don’t want to read people complaining, just gtfo the forums. I don’t know what ppl like him are expecting going into a thread named “Wow raiding culture is toxic and not rewarding.” The general discussion forums has literally been 70% of threads complaining about something in the game. What are you guys doing here? Do you just enjoy arguing/disagreeing with people? Some of them bring legitimate points and some of us DO want to talk about it even if the problem doesn’t affect us instead of just put OP down.
It is even simpler than this. People not wanting to take you with them into dungeons is a you problem, not a them problem. Whether or not you belong in a group is 100% the discretion of the person who created that group. They don’t owe you or anyone else anything. They can bring who they want, and if people have experience, of course they will take them.
GTF off the forums isn’t good advice here. I wasn’t the one who made the thread to whine. The whining is unreasonable. No one needs to bring people to their groups if they don’t want to. Sneaking in as an unexperienced, ungeared player, is stupid.
I mean I’m ilvl 194, io score 280ish last I checked and I’m out dpsing people with 500+ io score and 200+ ilvl in raids and mythics.
So again, it’s not really a “me” problem. It’s just a problem. These scores don’t actually vet anything especially with the boosting meta curently and the issues OP is stating hasn’t really affected me but thanks a lot of you for your great reading comprehension.
i don’t think anybody anywhere thinks rio is perfect, or that if you invite a bunch of people with good scores you’re guaranteed to time everything every time. it’s not intended to be perfect. it’s intended to be one tool among several that you can use to try to help improve your chances of success.
you’re talking about “beating” people with a higher rio score, which is cool but meaningless. rio isn’t a measure of dps/hps/dtps or whatever else and it’s not supposed to be.
what’s problematic about any of it? i’m a reasonably solid player but haven’t done much m+ and certainly don’t expect people with good ratings to invite me to +10s out of the goodness of their heart. i run low keys with guildies when they have spare time and that’s about it. over time my rating will increase and that’s fine. if new players think they should be running +10s an hour after hitting 60, that’s an expectations problem, not a gatekeeping problem.
I understand your point, but I respectfully disagree. The point is very simple. No one needs to bring you or anyone else to their group. They are out there, making their own group. You can do the same. We can all do the same. If you want a guaranteed spot, queue for heroics. If you want to push more difficult content, make your own group and pick who you want (likely using the same ideas that are currently being argued against).
Gear, IO and skill aside, everyone can invite who they want, and you can do the same.