What are you even saying
Not at all just avoiding conversation that goes against forum ToS
You are justifying certain comments based on “alt right people play WoW” and “we just had an election against trans people”.
The only correct statement is “you shouldnt tell anyone to unalive themselves”.
Not try to make comments why to justify it.
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My reason is honestly because extreme performance and generalized anxiety. I like people, I love helping them, but I get so rattled when working with people because I’m afraid I’ll ruin their experience / disappoint them.
I used to run a guild back in Cata, and I had to have a prescribed anxiety med during that. It was fun, but I was having an awful time inside. lol
I was never toxic or mean to anyone or anything, though, and I have no desire to be. My frustration and blame was and always had been self-directed.
Anyway, that was a rant. rofl But my point is, there are people with anxiety that can’t do the whole group / dedicated raid schedule thing. But I do agree we would also be a fringe minority.
This game has def gotten worse in terms of people expecting you to play at pro level in even basic leveling dungeons. I wouldn’t dare touch mythic+. It’s wild.
In my experience the players who refuse to join guilds and who refuse most or all group content and often those who pug it have very obvious mental illness issues that they are unable to hide or suppress. This generally makes them insufferable or outright hostile towards other players but they aren’t able to be accountable because untreated mental illness makes people irrational so they blame everyone else and feel that they themselves are being victimized simply because others won’t tolerate their unacceptable behavior. It’s a sad situation all around and I wish people would seek help more often but alas…
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Yes, this. This is me. XD The difference is I internalize it and always blame myself instead of other people. I know the type you’re referring to in the second part of your post, though, and honestly I’m glad I’m the way I am in contrast to that, but it’s still hard.
Instead of feeling victimized and lashing out, I feel like I’m by default the worst player in the group, so I’ll disappoint them if I’m not playing perfectly. So, ya know, max stress from the get-go.
And then if I get called out for a mistake, I just want to leave because I’m afraid I can’t play to expectations, and that they want me gone anyway. And it’s at this point I either have to try and go numb to just get the run over with, or let the panic attack happen and bail on the group / close the game.
So I just don’t do challenging group content. Like, I totally realize it’s a me problem, and I’m never mad or upset at other people. And I want to help people, and socialize, and have friends, etc. But man, anxiety is a monster. It really is.
But on the positive side, I’m glad WoW is enjoyable as a “Parallel Play” experience. I can do my solo delve stuff so I can get my ilvl up and contribute more in (basically anonymous / ungrouped) world content or LFR. And farm old content for rare stuff I can sell or give away. I do enjoy that.
Again, sorry for the rant. XD I just like adding some perspective to this topic as it is a big part of my life.
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No apology! This is something that should be talked about. I struggle as well. I’m more like you. I’m afraid of being bad so I generally avoid situations where that’s possible. I am in a guild though and I do socialize with them. I won’t run keys with them though. I won’t run them at all. But as you said that’s a me problem and it isn’t affecting anyone else’s gameplay experience. When our actions negatively impact others it’s always unacceptable and should never be tolerated. And these days people are being forced into accountability more often via bans and suspensions. And of course you have the retaliatory response with people talking about “ban culture” etc. Toxicity will never go away. But it can be controlled and I’m glad blizzard has gotten much more serious about it.
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Sounds like they need to lift more. I have 61,691 strength.
I have no power on what other people do. Spent the last year fighting for abortion access and rights for people with ND.
These conversations have no place on a WoW forum where these conversations are strictly disallowed.
Look man
You were the one trying to justify it.
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Like I said I can’t control what other people do.
It’s not a hard concept to understand.
I know this doesn’t concern me, but if I may, I think you guys had a miscommunication.
After reading through the thread, I don’t think that guy was justifying it, merely making a point that those types of people play on retail, too, and the fact that happened on classic doesn’t mean classic is worse for new players.
Like, I comprehended the convo to be something like this:
Az: Retail is toxic, and that’s why new players prefer classic.
Other guy (Ambiren): Hey this toxic thing happened on classic. It’s just as bad.
Az: Eh, tons of those bad people are on retail too. My whole country is full of them. But anyway, my gf had a better community experience on classic.
(Azstarys, please correct me if I’m wrong here.)
I don’t think he ever justified it, just said it happened, and he didn’t want to get into it because talking about politics can get you banned. That’s all.
Anyway, I know it’s none of my business, but I’m just trying to prevent an argument if it was simply a misunderstanding / miscommunication. 
It happens a lot on here, especially because many people don’t speak English as a first language.
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FTFY.
I highly doubt newer players are playing Classic, they’re in for a rude awakening when they do because Classic is not modernized whatsoever, and is quite archaic and seems clunky by modern standards.
It seems really weird you go on about modernizing WoW while at the same time putting Classic on a pedestal.
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Lots of brand new players on classic thanks to streamers and stuff. Was the same in 2019.
I smell troll. And wtf any of this has to do with op?
Or professional victim?
Anyway. I hope you can get over of whatever narrative going on your mind.
(Press X to Doubt.)
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Naw that’s pretty much it.
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I mean, if M+ toxicity and normal Raid Toxicity caused your GF to quit the game, WTF do you think would have happened after she scraped and clawed away at leveling up and got to Lv60 and tried to get herself into a Molten Core raid, or any of the mega-dungeons?
Do you think that they’d be any more accepting of terrible play?
My guild leader in OG 2019 Classic was 17.
I’m not arguing retail doesn’t get new players. Classic just had better onboarding via streamer marketing and a more linear progression path.
Uh, what?
Linear progression path? Are we talking about the same Classic?
Because Classic was very obtuse. Some bosses you need elemental resist gear, some bosses you needed this kind of gear, that kind of gear, there’s no clear indication of what dungeon(s) you’re supposed to do when, and even the leveling path was a mess.
Quests that take you to the literal four corners of the world.
That’s somehow more Linear than DF’s/TWW’s story?
And with Streamers… the Streamers streaming WoW are probably people that only someone who is already a fan of WoW would have ever heard of. And only a few of them are streaming Classic to begin with.