You manage to say a lot but actually say nothing at all. It’s pretty amazing really.
If you keep reading, more sims are shown that show this isn’t true. And there certainly is no upgrade in raid that will provide you a 20% damage increase like you originally said. The biggest upgrade you get out of domination gems is something like +200 DPS, whereas normal socket farming will get you +100.
The weapon is a 5% upgrade over your current weapon. That’s the only significant upgrade you are missing out on. The trinkets are at most a 2% upgrade for you. A 246 Quantum, Phial, or Battery are all better upgrades than the Mythic raid trinkets. That is a very far cry from when you initially said you were missing out on 20% damage by not raiding.
Compare: Droptimizer • Sanctum of Domination • Mythic - Atrumn - 15,601 DPS - Raidbots
with Droptimizer • Dungeons • +15 Weekly Chest - Atrumn - 15,479 DPS - Raidbots
You have plenty of upgrades you can get that do not involve the raid. There is only one item you cannot replace from M+ valor gear or weekly vault loot.
Sure, it sucks that a single item has to be obtained from other content. But that’s nothing new. There have been plenty of examples where raiders need to PVP for an item (see: PVP trinket for Fire Mages) and hundreds of examples where we have to do M+ for them.
To try and spin that into some raider privilege thing is just weird scapegoatism.
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Not quite. The game’s system design is certainly flawed, but raider criticisms have been specifically cited by developers in public interviews ever since the game began its decline after Legion. Please go watch the interviews if you have not yet.
To be sure, it is possible that the developers are just using raider feedback as excuses for doing what they wanted to do anyway, but raider feedback was obviously taken into account when you look at 9.1. Raiders got their own entire progression system that applies to all content, while everyone else got nerfed.
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If giving dom sockets is them catering to raiders then I would hate to see them not cater to them since dom sockets are pretty universally hated by highend raiders. If that’s them trying to make them happy then that’s even more sad.
It was designed for them yes but not to make them happy. It’s designed to make them play more hours and therefore less likely to quit. Not to appease them
And in my discussions I never meant to said that raiders are a problem, just that the catering of the entire game to raiders is ruining the game for the majority of players, and killing the game slowly. (I am indeed happy for raiders if they are enjoying the raids.)
Yet somehow raiders are jumping out of the woodwork to say how bad the game is for them, and everything is being catered to casuals, when objectively there was a huge design shift to punish casuals starting in 9.0, and it has only gotten worse in 9.1.
It kind of reminds me how the people who are most selfish (unintelligent, etc.) are often the ones who accuse others of being selfish (unintelligent, etc.), but selfless (intelligent, etc.) people usually don’t go around blaming others for being selfish (unintelligent etc.) Note that it is Trump (not Bill Gates, etc.) who calls himself a genius and accuses others of being stupid.
Psychologically, it is hard for some people to take a step back and look at objective reality because it bothers them too much and interferes with their own subjective realities.
One of the changes recently have been an improvement for raiders experience. Yes the raids themselves are good but things like being locked to one covenant, conduit power, Don sockets being as strong as they were at launch all negatively impact on highend raiders experience.
Then we go back further to have RNG corruption, mana pearl gear from nazjatar and azerite gear before that. All pretty much unanimously dispised by mythic raiders.
Legion RNG legendaries where people would level multiple of the same class to try and get the right lego.
Can anyone point to a system that was released recently that raiders actually liked?
Where is this game that casual players think exists where the raiding scene is catered to and are happy with the product because I’ll go play that.
Every time its lip service “we heard feedback from raiders” then they go and add something like conduit energy. Wtf?
Ocular Gland + Decanter + Jotun = 5.7% increase in overall dungeon dps
The above + shards = 7.7% increase in overall dungeon dps
So, it’s not just a single item, but a combination of raid exclusive items that make it a problem. Raiders whined for months until they forced the devs to change PvP gearing because they had to farm a single trinket or weapon from PvP. Seems rather hypocritical to then have a problem with m+ exclusive players complaining about essentially the same thing.
I will, at least, concede that the dps difference is not as high as I originally thought. ~8% is nothing to scoff at though… can make or break many keys.
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You could also get Phial for +2.6% and IQD for +5.9%, and then get Korthia Sockets for another ~1%
Like, if you’re not exhausting the options you do have access to… what makes you think you’d exhaust the options for the upgrades you don’t currently have access to? Getting raid gear takes a ton of work and luck. That’s why raiders always do both.
Warcraft Logs - Combat Analysis for Warcraft
they still need the PVP trinket.
Raiders literally always have to do non-raid content to be optimized for raid, more so than any other game mode. We always have to do M+, do the world grinds, farm the most rep, do PVP, etc. Nothing gets “removed” for us that isn’t excessive. We still have to do more other game modes than anybody else.
All I’m saying is that non-raid game modes offer plenty enough rewards to not disrupt your ability to do the content you want to do.
I’ve been farming both IQD and Korthia since I resubbed a few weeks ago. If I were interested in raiding then I wouldn’t have a problem investing the time. The point we’ve deviated from though is that you typically aren’t going to be clearing mythic raids without mythic raid gear. If a raider requires a specific item from m+ it’s rather easy for them to crossover. The current m+ player does not have this flexibility.
For example, in BfA I farmed a few mythic bosses for items because there wasn’t this ridiculous shard system. Even in Legion it wasn’t too difficult to farm a set bonus for use in m+. The raid scene just sucks now IMO.
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Link it? I’d bet you’re misunderstanding what they say. Even if they cite raider criticisms my bet is they didn’t do any of the raiders suggested fixes. They’ve had a “you think you do, but you don’t” mentality for a very long time.
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Exactly. They cite Raider criticisms over things like azerite power farming and they respond by putting in shards where you need to level them up by doing a heap of dailies and collecting stuff. It’s pretty much the same but thankfully without the island spamming being a thing now.
Just because they cite these criticisms doesn’t mean they are doing what raiders want in any way or form because by and large they are not.
I would like it if anyone could point me to a new system they have introduced that raiders actually like. None Spring to mind though
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Man youre blind, or just trolling. EVERY DAY has some post about removing LFR, and you KNOW it.
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Source???
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Yeah maybe I’m just blind. Once again there is like 3 people who raid at a level worth mentioning who even use these forums and two of them are in here saying we don’t care what you gear you have lol
I would say that there are only a few thousand players who even consistently post in these forums, but the fact that there is merely a handful of hardcore raiders is representative of the fact that the audience Blizzard has in mind when creating systems (players who mainly want to raid but would do side content if forced to) is indeed a minority.
Furthermore, the hundreds of players on here commenting (or liking comments) on how they are unhappy with how casual, solo, and alt gearing was removed completely in Shadowlands represent the millions of unhappy casual players who already left the game.
Yet in 9.1.5, Blizzard is just going to do fan service for the hardcores who stayed rather than address gearing issues. (The PvP changes are ridiculous because most PvPers want ranks/upgrades within Honor/Conquest gear removed completely, rather than more rank/upgrades added.)
What casual player is going to change their covenant multiple times a day so that they can have the BiS ability/soulbind for each type of content that they do?!
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9.1.5 is the best patch ever dropped by Blizzard for people who still play this game. It adds almost nothing for people who quit when they were unhappy over the state of the game. The .5 patches have almost always been this.
I wouldn’t say these are aimed at hardcores at all, these are aimed at people who play the game.
Uh, I have no idea how you make the conclusion based on forums statistics. The problem is most “hardcore raiders” considered these forums a joke filled with angry casuals who think mythic raiders are the fault the game is headed in a bad direction.
Sad thing these threads just back up that notion.
Main post has 254 likes LMFAO
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The whiteknighting here is at pathetic levels.
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9.1.5 is consistent with what they have been doing for ages.
Step 1 release a ptr with obvious glaring issues
Step 2 players give extensive and detailed feedback on how broken it is and ways to fix it
Step 3 blizzard releases it unchangeed
Step 4 time passes
Step 5 blizz does a patch to introduce a watered down version or what we said they should do over a year ago.
It was the same with azerite vendors and corruption vendors and neck grinds and RNG legos etc.
I won’t believe anything has really changed until a patch comes out without the massive holes because the listened in the first place. Also an apology would go along way to earning good will
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Exactly.
9.1.5 is introducing changes that no player can disagree with (although not all players will benefit equally). However, devs still seem to be afraid to make any changes that might be controversial to raiders. From what I saw in the 9.1.5 dev notes, there are absolutely no changes to help non-raiders gear up (such as making Mythic Plus upgrade achievements account wide, buffing Mythic Plus loot drop rates, buffing Korthian relic drops, or adding a gearing system to Torghast), or to help non-raiders participate in the shards system (dom sockets outside of raiding gear).
The fact that devs are willing to change their tune on everything but gear in SL makes me worry that gear gatekeeping and gear scarcity is not going to be just the nail in SL’s coffin, but the central theme of WoW moving forward as it struggles to maintain subs.
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Raiders also hate dom sockets. That’s not just a non Raider thing.
People always seem to act like raiders are happy with the systems that are added for them. That could not be further from the truth
Raiders hate dom sockets
Raiders hated corruption especially when it was released and more RNG
Raiders hated the mana pearl gear whatever it was called
Raiders hated azerite gear and neck grinds
Lets not pretend these systems are good for raiders and bad for non raiders. These systems are just bad full stop. This isn’t a raiders vs non raiders thing it is a players vs blizzard thing
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