Umm, don’t you have this backwards?
The game was made for easy raid logging with all the best gear in raids until Legion.
Basically the opposite…
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Yeah they do focus on raiders too much but I agree with nerfing mythic+.
Mythic+ should be nerfed to the ground. It should be like MoP challenge mode, some titles, some end of season gear, nothing else. No one should feel compelled to do it to gear and it shouldn’t be something the game should be balanced around (AOE caps, hello). It is too annoying and don’t tell me it’s casual content. It’s more aggravating than mythic raiding without half the camaraderie that makes that bearable.
As a casual if you’re not willing to raid I do think it’s fine to accept that your path to gearing is through world content and saving up currencies and that you won’t come within a certain range of challenging the gear power of the top raiders. This is fair. This has long been the standard and it’s not the issue. The issue is making the gulf too ridiculously big for casuals and focusing on the raid content to the exclusion of the world.
Agree that world and solo content being nerfed was bad though.
Honestly though they’re not going to do that kind of major game philosophy change in .5 patch. Best reasonable hope is 10.0.
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So are you just dumb? You realize that’s literally YOUR content too, right? Do you think if NOBODY engaged with raids in an MMO because it was much easier, and far quicker to get equivalent gear that they’d continue to make them? Better yet, do you think you’d get any content when the ONE appealing thing to justify people playing a content patch is no longer being developed?
Do you honestly think Blizzard would just stop designing raids and just add a bunch of other content in the middle of the game or keep introducing new gear seasons where you just spam the same dungeons for upgrades then coast for a few months? If you do then you need a reality check.
Like it or not, raiding is why you have content period. If you lose the people who actually like raiding then the game is literally over with its ability to grow and players will bleed out much faster. Black Desert advertised itself as having no PvE content, they eventually had to start adding it because it was killing the game to not have it among a bunch of other problems that already alienated players. WoW originally wasn’t even going to launch with raids. It was going to be a totally open world game where you mainly just got gear to fight the other faction and Onyxia. A team of three people had to make Molten Core and it became clear the game needed raids to stay alive and they did it entirely on their own time because the company did not believe allocating resources to PvE was necessary.
You couldn’t be further from the truth. Just because Blizzard wants to pretend it’s only 1% of players that care about getting the most out of their character doesn’t make it fact. Even your average player today is acquainted with things like raidbots and sims their gear. People in LFR sim items before trading them out to see if it is an upgrade.
Most people join a game and immediately look for what the best thing is to play or how they should be playing to advance quickest. That’s human nature these days. Genshin Impact is a single player game, know how many people actually bother to play Amber who is like the game’s advertising poster child? Not many, because she sucks and it’s very clear she sucks compared to literally any other character. There are very few people who still play Amber because they like her and don’t care.
Lmao, you mean random passives that did nothing and just gave you an additional trait on a relic instead of having their own traits associated? That’s not good game design to just give players another passive effect. Good game design would have been all of the gold traits being roughly on par with each other but only picking one but not being punished for how you chose to play. Instead it was clear which one you went for first, second, and third and knowing what traits you wanted to get was pretty obvious too.
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Imagine thinking what’s been happening over the last few years was in anyway to appease raiders.
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As other’s have said, it’s the opposite. They have screwed over their real player base, “the raiders,” over the past 3 expansions moving more and more into casual content. Content that ALWAYS fails.
IF you don’t have to work for something, you won’t value it. This is basic human nature. Guilds and raids if nothing else required building a group and working together. THAT gave the gear value and meaning. Mythic plus does this on a smaller scale, but warfronts islands covenants and torghast is all meaningless.
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It’s because people don’t raid and blame raiders as why problems happened. Ironically, a lot of the egregious changes you could attribute more to the casual player like how ridiculous titanforging was allowed to get because “That poor LFR player if he got a really good roll on an item would be so happy!” Then raiders are stomaching Nighthold Mythic clears two raids later because Convergence of Fates might drop, and might roll well enough to beat out Antorus trinkets.
Or druids having to farm a fricken arcanocrystal every tier in the off chance the boss is in rotation that week.
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Yeah, nail on the head there, it ain’t changes for raiding nuking the game from orbit, its the flood of lazy casual changes.
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That’s been obvious since Cataclysm when they started just losing players with their increasing need to cut away anything of value from the game if it required time investment. LFR was Blizzard’s cater to the casual playerbase moment when they made them a difficulty that was solely so they could see the raiding content because they can’t, or don’t want to join a guild.
After that point, they began demanding more and more things. Blizzard in WoD had to change the loot tables of LFR to not include tier and trinkets from the other difficulties because top raiders were forced to run LFR because they might get Bindings of Immerseus which was too powerful even on LFR quality over other trinkets in the game. Who is going to pass up a 5% increase to all of your secondary stats exactly unless they have one that gives them more than 5%?
The cutting away of depth in the game, the over simplification of things, the abuse of timegated content so people who only play an hour a week don’t fall too far behind, the fact raids are locked on launches for 3 weeks so people can “take it slow and enjoy the leveling.” Hell even the existence of Mythic+ were all aimed squarely at the casual players who did not want to commit to raiding. We are now seeing how disastrous that catering has proven to be and they’re STILL screaming everything is the fault of the raiders.
Casual players in this game remind me of Harry Potter’s cousin going ballistic because last year he got more presents than that year despite still getting like 40 of them. Blizzard could cater three expansions solely to the casual player, no raids, everything they want. Game would suffer, they’d add a raid again. Know what people would say? “OH MY GOD YOU’RE CATERING TO THE RAIDERS AGAIN!”
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You don’t need gear or skill to clear a +15.
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You’re talking to someone that probably needs 10 stacks of Determination in LFR to kill the end boss.
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M+15 drops 236 versus Heroic Raid’s 239. The big however is that M+ vault will provide 252 while Heroic Raiders will be stuck with their 239. I’d say that’s competitive, if not M+ being ahead of Heroic Raiders.
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All of that was to slow us all down. Time played is more precious than any in game activity, raiding included.
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This is the actual truth. What the game shouldn’t exist for is the HIGH END of raiders, and why the game has been failing since the addition of more modes and higher difficulties, which are splintering the playerbase.
What they should have been doing is getting more people into raiding, by making it MORE accessible, not less. What the game excels at almost specifically, is large-scale PvE design.
When you ask a friend “Do you raid?” that shouldn’t be followed up with “AOTC guild? Normal Guild? Do you PUG LFR? Do you do Mythic? Did you get CE? How about Hall of Fame?”.
It should be “Yeah, we raid [INSTANCE]”. It was this way in Vanilla and TBC. It started splintering in WotLK. Cata saw the first drop off with the Deathwing design not being as interesting as Arthas (obviously), and increased difficulty in Heroic. They should have taken a step back and re-evaluated, but they decided to go the other way entirely. The game has been in a nosedive ever since.
No amount of scenery changes, no amount of additional classes, none of it will bring this game back from the nosedive. Sargeras and the culmination of 20 years of Warcraft storylines was a solid bump for Legion, but that’s it - it’s exhausted now. Look what it took to get those players back for Legion. They gave them literal Ashbringer, brought back Illidan, and destroyed the Burning Legion forever. Those players bounced 30 days into BFA.
They’re now pushing 5 man content as premiere content with M+. They’re further dividing the players into those forms of raiding as raids get harder and harder every tier. More and more guilds closing up shop every single tier. Servers dying and everyone going to a handful for population. One faction is DOA. It would take some of the boldest changes they’ve ever made to the game to right the ship, and I don’t think they’d ever even talk about doing it. The game will continue to die.
But hey - you can experience another covenant’s story and there were some hairstyles added. This game is having dirt thrown on the casket. It needs a LOT more than that.
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I’m not going to nit pick every game design detail that exists. Titanforging being bad can’t be used as a tool to discredit those that don’t Raid. Guilds are largely overrated and getting personally Involved In other people lives always comes with giant sets of problems. I have my own goals and things I enjoy. I think for myself. Content that allows me to enjoy others company or compete against them without becoming personally Involved Is optimal, for my life to be fluid. This Is the argument I use against those who accuse “casuals” of being the “problem” of the game.
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The game is been made in a way to waste as much time possible for everyone, is silly to try to make it into a casual vs raiders problem. Nobody is forcing Blizzard to limit casual rewards, make Torghast nothing more than a “tax” to get a legendary and WQ reward worthless.
That is all on Blizzard and nobody else.
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Icecrown and Kara 
It was a change literally made for them, how can’t I use it exactly? Just because you don’t have a way to spin it favorably doesn’t mean it isn’t your fault. Who do you honestly think wanted titanforging? The raider who dealt with it since 5.2 and complained about it from the beginning because they were chasing the same items just hoping they rolled higher, or the person who thinks its their God given right because they pay a sub fee to be entitled to the best gear in the game without having to do Mythic raiding to have it.
This is a no brainer. What group would demand a system, and then CHEER IT ON between someone who can actually earn those items organically, or someone who wants those items but has no means to actually acquire them traditionally?
In summary of your BS above. “I have my own ambitions, I feel I should be allowed to play the game in the exact way I want to play and be entitled to all the rewards for not playing it the traditional way. This game should overhaul its design philosophies to suit my sensibilities over how the game should operate despite doing well on its original path years prior.”
So not only are you intellectually dishonest, you’re a sociopath who willingly will destroy something other people enjoy just so you can feel like you’re rewarded in the game. You’re a selfish scumbag, plain and simple. You’re like that friend that invites themselves along to a gathering, then starts trying to change all the established plans to suit them and include them. “Oh, well we planned on a big Smash Bros night, but someone we didn’t invite along decided they didn’t want to play Melee and now we’re stuck playing Mario Kart because that’s what they wanted.”
Did I or any other player say that there should be no raids? The presence of raids is not a problem for anyone, as much as the absence of meaningful non-raiding content.
The contrast between WoD and Legion could not be starker: A huge failure of an expansion because its only power-related content is raiding, and a huge success of an expansion because it introduced power-related content outside of raiding.
When development started getting raiding-centric again due to all the raiders complaints, the game devolved into BfA and eventually Shadowlands. And 9.1 is even worse than 9.0, unbelievably, because of Castle Nathria raider complaints.
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You are the one spinning things about not me. I’m saying that you shouldn’t do that. It’s deceptive.
The only bs I see around here Is your elaborate and yet so Incredibly boring rants. I grind out my crap that I want to have In the game just like everyone else. Again you are trying to deceive. You literally just sit there and make up crap about me. It’s honestly makes me angry.
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Not explicitly, but your posts make it very clear you have an ire toward raiders and feel they should be getting less. In a game that mind you the ONLY thing they get, is a new raid to spam for months until a new content patch. You think that entails catering the game to them.
I’m just telling you right now, raiding being enjoyable is why you even still have a game. The last people you want to mess with are the people that justify new content being added to the game.
Apparently not because you literally made a thread complaining that you felt the game is too catered to the raiders when the real issue is that Blizzard gives clowns like you the time of day thinking you’ll ever say anything remotely intelligent when you can’t even accept “hey, what I want is bad for the game” and just blame the raiders for things added not to appease them, but to appease you.
Yeah, sure, THAT is why WoD failed. Not the whole you know, fact Blizzard blatantly lied to their audience to sell preorders and began cutting 4/5 of the expansion features from the game then expected players to stick around because they’d fix it. One of our LAUNCH RAIDS was instead held back and given to us months later. The Shattrath raid didn’t happen and the entire expansion had ONE raid added over a two year period that wasn’t finished in beta.
Or the fact it was clear from 6 months in that the project was abandoned while they worked on a new expansion.
Legion got the development resources of TWO expansions and was still “acceptable.” Even getting to that point required Blizzard to change a lot of glaring flaws people told them were problems in beta. For as much as I heard “Rose tinted” thrown at me for liking the old style, it’s funny watching people who clearly never engaged with Legion early on pretend Legion was some critically acclaimed expansion from the beginning and not full of a LOT of issues with the playerbase.
And again, no. These expansions went to hell because Blizzard is incompetent and the systems they made strictly to cater to casual players were hitting their breaking point. Titanforging was out of control. PvP gear scaling was out of control to where it was better to just use less gear, who do you think asked for that? The guy with gear, or the guy with zero gear that couldn’t compete without a handicap?
Really weird that the biggest vocal group of people complaining about BFA and Shadowlands are the raiders. But according to you the game is built solely around them to please them so they should be happy right? Oh right, no they’re complaining about the game being designed in such a stupid way that they feel punished for playing too long, gear is resetting even harder now than it did before (what group would ask for gear resets every tier? The ones with the gear, or the ones without it that want to be on par for a bit? Hmm, really makes you think.) to where item level is the most important stat on a piece due to them inflating the value of primary stats.
Watching this game be catered to the super casuals, then them crying thinking the game is catered to the raiders is just amusing to me. You people can’t be honest with yourselves at any point.
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