WoW killed itself for raiders over 7 years

Between Titanforging, needing to grind out 50 Artifact Level for a 5% damage increase spamming Maw of Souls +2 for 18 hours a day, Azerite Traits, Essences, RNG sockets, Corruptions, Conduit Energy, and now having the correct covenant for the content. They are complaining about the game more than you are.

The only positive thing they can say is that the raid fights are getting more interesting over time. They seem to genuinely hate the bells and whistles that go with playing your character optimally, especially the ones pushing World First or Hall of Fame status.

No, they had to get nerfed because guilds would just not raid period, collect the Mythic item level loot end of week from Mythic+, and ultimately skip Heroic raiding entirely with +15 loot.

M+ is too spammable to have too good of drops. Also prior to 8.3, Mythic raid gear was still better. In 8.1 they basically said their gimmick for raiding at the time felt like cosmetics and random procs on stuff because gearing from m+ was a lot faster and in a lot of cases better barring specific slots.

What praise? You mean the praise that people finally had for the expansion in 7.2 after they dialed back a lot of the stupidity with the power systems? Most people on Legion launch hated the gameplay. Legendaries were too important and entirely RNG, the game’s supposed back luck protection was bugged and had to be hotfixed because instead of increasing your odds of getting a legendary if you didn’t have one, it was increasing your luck of getting another the more you had. Emerald Nightmare was a terrible raid and we didn’t get our first actual raid until 6 months into the expansion.

Protective or utility legendaries were far weaker than throughput ones requiring a hotfix that buffed their primary stats which didn’t change much. Artifact Knowledge working at it originally did made it so you had to log in and research a new rank the minute your previous rank finished learning. You didn’t take your m+ loot out of the box until you were getting no new artifact knowledge ranks that week to maximize the AP from it. Some classes like warriors took an extra week over everyone else to get their 3rd artifact relic slot.

Balance of Power wasn’t doable in LFR which upset people. Suramar rep gated TWO Mythic only dungeons which upset some because they were reputation gated, and others because it was Mythic only. Then Karazhan launched Mythic only and had people bawling about that.

What about key bricking? Fail to time a key? It didn’t lose a level. It literally went gray, you had to run it again and time it for NO loot, then run it a second time and beat it again in order to actually get rewards which nobody liked. Certain appearances to unlock were only available after a specific rank in artifact knowledge which made people waste their time thinking they were just really unlucky with the Thunderfury bindings only to learn they could only drop for you AFTER Artifact Rank 8 which was 40 days into the expansion roughly given ranks took 5 days if it wasn’t on catch up where it bottomed out at a day per.

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The entire expansion of Warlords of Draenor and the entire patch 9.1 prove the OP’s point. The recent dev team’s elitist brains can’t process any system that doesn’t serve raiders with rewards, or enslave them with systems that raiders have to participate in for secondary power.

Legion and BfA 8.3 were the exception, and they seemed much more popular than SL.

Less than 40% of players raid above LFR, and some of those might be carries!

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Oh lord Ion you always know what’s best for everyone even if it goes against our preferences, our preferences are wrong and we don’t understand your gigantic :brain:

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I’m a “hardcore raider”, I think i very comfortably fall under the 1% as i’m the raid leader for a World 155 guild. If Blizzard could create casual content that’s worth playing I’d be all for it - I don’t want raid or die because the more content means I get my moneys worth.

FFXIV does casual content right. I’m in love with Triple Triad, I do my cactpot daily draws and weekly draw every opportunity and also do the GATE/events. Even the non combat professions are handled better than all of WoWs professions.

Blizzard is just creativity bankrupt.

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He is a lawyer. What is said, “Can and will be used against you.” :clown_face:

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You know, It’s not that hard to think up fun things to do. I don’t understand how they can’t make more fun stuff for casuals to enjoy. I guess we are getting to farm Islands solo. I’ll probably do that for a while.

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That’s the most hilarious thing, all they need to do is go play FFXIV for a week and they could come back with a very large variety of things they could add that would be fun things to do on the side.

The first time i did a GATE in FFXIV (Basically jumping puzzle) i thought
Wow I do this in WoW anyway, how hard would it be to add this to WoW?

Like seriously, add a jumping mini-game to all of the main cities, give each their own achievement for doing it in time or whatever, could even have similar as the darkmoon faire Bronze/Silver/Gold times then give titles, pets, toys, mounts etc based on what you get?

Jumpmaster all Gold times
Leaping Enthusiast Silver times
Jumping Enjoyer Bronze times

Like how much dev time would that realistically take? Very little for a LOT of content.

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It is almost like they tried to hurt everyone all at once!

They used to “borrow” popular things all the time. Its just hamster wheel nonsense now.

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Outside of lfr, how many players actually raid? If you think its the majority you need to look outside your bubble.

If it’s the majority then that means at least every other wow player raids, which I find hard to believe (and lfr can hardly be described as raiding as it is)

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Yes. If people can get comparable gear outside of raiding, then they will skip raiding. Developers want to avoid this at all costs, even at the cost of damaging the game. I believe that players should have a right to not raid.

Casual and average players (who did not need to min-max ASAP) did not concern themselves with the systems so much, as they felt they were being aptly rewarded both power-wise and cosmetically for the content they were doing, and there was plenty of content. And the systems themselves were ingeniously designed compared to what we have now. (Netherlight crucible traits were the beginning of the end of good design….)

Yes, those were sore points for casual players. However, most Mythic+0 groups were very accepting of lower iLvls in 7.0, and in 7.2 and beyond (once we were easily geared) you could sometimes find groups running 7.0 and 7.1 raids for Balance of Power and for the high chance of getting legendary drops from the raid bosses.

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Eh. I disagree.

The bad decisions of shadowlands have very little to do with raiding.

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The bad decisions have been implemented to keep people logged in, Blizzard only care about how many hours they can wring out of the playerbase now and it became almost a joke when they forced us to run around the maw for lore reasons.

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Why is that not the way it should be?

“Raiders” are the ones most negatively impacted by the systems you are talking about though.

So the devs aren’t doing it for them.

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yes yes. you speak for the silent majority. i’ve been hearing the prophesies of those like you for a decade.

you have no clue about what the majority does or wants and you are nobody’s spokeman.

Raiding in wow is the best thing ever, even if you no longer have that much time to devote or commit in wow you can still enjoy it in some form or the another but it is not the result of poor world content.

Poor world content is completely based on Blizzard rushing ppl to end game, everything before the new expansion is sped up ,after that its throttled to do end game instance content.

Take the SL quest line for example, you are skipped to the quest to do Korthia and then you are throttled heavily (nearly 4-5 months )via rep , tokens and renown :rofl:

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So then don’t raid.

Losing masterloot, tier sets, rng legendaries that determined your fate on the dps meter, azerite lottery that required m+, essences that required a whole lot of not raiding to do big raid damage, personal loot being nerfed in raids at the start of shadowlands, benthic gear. All stand in the way of the assertion that blizzard is trying to please raid or die players. Its not a comprehensive list either because you are very wrong, blizzard just doesn’t balance the content types by reward.

Covenant swapping effected everyone too, raiders in fact could generally get away with just the single target covenant in most cases vs m+ who might have wanted to swap for tyran/fort weeks or pvpers who might have covenants that help with different things in the pvp meta.

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Blizzard has done nothing but crap on raiders and raiding guilds for the last few years.

Shadowlands in particular is a nasty piece of work. They cut loot drops in half, the covenant restrictions were specifically designed to put the screws to raiders by penalizing things like role & conduit switching (which is why they were so popular on General Discussion before SL came out), and the raiding Great Vault is so idiotically designed that it MUST have been made by somebody who’s never done progression raiding in their life.

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