Exactly. Raiders should be allowed to have things they can get and enjoy (like teir sets, transmog and mounts) but it shouldn’t mean it takes away from other parts of the game or forces people to do said raids. For example the domination sets have been horrible because they’re basically required for every other part of the game now if you’re wanting to do well. That is not how raiding rewards should work.
Every part of the game - Mythic+, PvP, raiding, World content should all have their own rewards/systems to make them fun and exciting. Just because other sections of the game can get gear/rewards doesn’t mean it takes away from raiding, and WoW needs to realise that.
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Agreed. It seems very illogical and impractical (from a business perspective) to try and shoot down M+ when it was such a success in Legion and BfA, and obviously costs much less to develop than raids. Some people just prefer dungeon content. (I personally think raid fights are too long….)
The current development team has some kind of agenda to preserve raiding, rather than to preserve overall sub numbers. Perhaps Activision wants to cut back on raid development, and Ion is trying to get raid participation metrics up as high as possible because he doesn’t want to cut back on raids?
Devs explicitly said that dom shards were to make raiders feel more rewarded when the system was announced, so it doesn’t make sense for all these forum posters to argue that devs are not putting raiders first.
Practically no one here is blaming the raiders or saying that raids are bad. And the dom shard system is almost universally disliked. The question is whether devs will finally stop prioritizing raiders at the cost of the game in 9.1.5 and beyond.
The cringiest part of GD posters is that they really hate raiders, but always used Hall of Fame or Mythic Raiding Guilds to push their faction balance and other agendas.
Imagine being a casual raider 
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This is what confuses me the most. I don’t see how blizzard could have possibly thought it would be liked. But hey that’s bow what this thread is for.
None of the changes in the last couple of expansions to do with raiding have been liked by the high end raiders that people claim are being catered to. Hundreds of Islands to make my gear work? No thanks. Almost universally hated by raiders. Conduit power? No thanks. Again almost universally hated.
I really enjoyed the org/sw visions and getting good enough at them to 5 mask. That really was terrific solo content. Also mage towers were great.
Torghast just feels off, maybe its because its not rewarding enough, certainly feels like if I am 20 ilvls lower then the recomended for layer 12 and flawlessly clearing it I should get rewards or a spot in the great vault.
Overall I don’t like going from BFA to SL rewards … BFA was great when you had low play time but seemingly rewarded too much if you no lifed all day every day… I think thats the ultimate justification of why the game is inaccessible the majority of gamers, its designed and balanced around the no lifers not your average gamer (though they do tack on content for your average gamer every so often… but it feels very tacked on when they do).
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Good luck still having a game when the bulk 90% of non raiders customers leave to go enjoy a real MMORPG game like FFXIV, where the focus is RPG and not raids only and exclusively. Where the world is alive, there are events all the time to engage with the community, where they show love and respect to the “casual” players you seem to hate so much.
Edited to add: FFXIV raids are pretty damn awesome, and even mythic wow raiders are migrating over there more and more. They proved that they can do good raids AND good RPG content. Who would have thought that was possible?
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This thread is dumb as hell.
Blizzard doesn’t make garbage systems that cater to anyone, they make garbage systems because they are incompetent developers.
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I kove this OP. Lots of truth within it. The “all things subservient to raiding” design philosophy has killed the game slowly over time.
The solution is offering true alternate paths to progression, which are unique to each playstyle.
Best raid gear gotten only in raids.
Best arena gear gotten only in arenas.
Best battlegrounds gear gotten only in bg.
Best dungeon gear gotten only in dung.
Best player vs open world gear only gotten in the open world.
No raid gear best for all situations other than high level pvp.
I am sure the WoW team is smart enough to figure out the mechanisms to make it work.
Then, people can just pursue the content they like whether it is one thing or all the things.
If it kills the raiding scene, then so be it. Maybe that means a lot of people never liked raiding to begin with and only did it because they were induced to do so.
This design philosphy would allow us to get rid of LFR and other degenerate features added to prop up the raid scene.
It also allows raiders to raid and then log off if they want to.
Will it happen? Likely not.
Why not? Doesn’t fit the formula and current expectations.
WoW has had the over-arching raid-or-die mentality for so long the only people left are those who buy into it.
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How do you create “casual content that’s worth playing” when raid gear trivializes almost everything other than high end arenas and high end mythic+?
You also have to consider all the people who left WoW due to lack of non-raiding meaningful content.
It’s actually funny seeing Timbaeslice shilling for vehicle mini-games when his best buddy Brewa literally said in another thread nobody likes vehicle mini-games (Brewa is mostly right by the way - nobody really likes vehicle mini-games and Gold Saucer would flop HARD in WoW).
It’s mental gymnastics. The dude simply doesn’t want to admit that what he likes can cause rot-out of the player-base. Let’s all take a second and reflect on the fact that Preach loved Warlords of Draenor, one of the most hated expansions of all times even among more casual Mythic raiders. These type of players live in a bubble and think WoW will magically continue to live on if it “trims the fat”.
Of course, some of them say WoD didn’t have enough content, even though during WoD’s first year it literally had the fastest raid content pipeline delivery of any point in WoW’s history ever, with three full raids in the span of a year. People were dropping like flies even during the point in WoW where WoD was quickly getting new raid content because there was nothing else to do but raid.
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Nah. The self entitlement of the younger generation has killed it.
It already does that.
No. This is a terrible idea.
You do realize this is the least raid or die expansion to date right?
This is why solo players should never be taken seriously.
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You are entitled to your opinion. I am sorry you don’t like my ideas but just don’t expect different results (i.e. Shadowlands) by doing the same thing.
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Your ideas just show a complete lack of understanding of the game.
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premise:
Evidence / examples provided:
Conclusion:
OP generates likes by following proven formula in GD:
Complain about state of game by blaming “Elite” in one capacity or another.
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I beg your pardon? Where did i mention vehicle mini games? I said casual content worth playing.
FFXIV kinda does it well and I think i made a pretty good example of what casual content worth playing is when discussing the jump games in the cities with titles/pets.
Mythic Raiders loved WoD, once again you’ve proven you have actually no idea what mythic raiders do or think. Keep it up.
look mum i said mental gymnastics : )
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Since release Infact. The game is considerably less “raid or die” then when the game was it’s most popular in the early expations. Since then huge steps have been made by blizzard to create alternate gearing paths and alternative end game activities.
Sorry the facts don’t fit your narrative. That’s unfortunate
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And my idea frees raiders up even more to avoid content they don’t like. All they have to do is raid.
What’s really not to like about what I presented?
And just to be clear my idea is not to make non raid gear on par with raid gear for raiding. The idea is to make gear and rewards the best for what content a person does. It take a total rethinking of gear. You would have to design mechanisms to guide this outside of just higher ilevel = better and thing more along the lines of specific aspects and mechanics of gear suit those venues of play.
It would be incredibly liberating for thr designers and the players.
WoW is becoming a niche lobby game. It needs to rethink itself.
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