Incorrect on every level. WOW started as a casual game because people were sick of hard core MMOs of the day.
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It started as a more casual alternative to Everquest.
That doesnât mean the entire game was strictly casual.
If you look at what people did back in Vanilla and think that they were putting in casual hours⌠I donât know what to tell you. Alternatively, if people had to do what they had to in Vanilla to acquire gear and stuff now yâall would be throwing a fit.
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I feel bad for raiders these days.
I wish I could be one again, but sadly, Blizzard hasnât thought about addressing those of us on dead servers I guessâŚ
Cata was a little ridiculous though. It was the result of high-end players saying WotLK dungeons were too easy for the rewards they gave.
Challenging content leads to more wipes, more kicks, more ragequits, more toxicity, more exclusivity, and more frustration.
Take a Mythic Zero dungeon in Shadowlands, for example. People are usually going to be accepting of lower item level toons. A wipe, or one person not knowing mechanics, is not going to be the end of the world. The dungeon will be completed smoothly in the end.
But then take a +20 of that same dungeon. It may take half an hour to find a team, and you would have to have the right item level and achievements, and maybe even be a certain spec or covenant. People are going to be extremely toxic if you donât know all the routes and which mobs to CC or slow or mindsoothe, let alone if there is a wipe.
Unnecessary difficulty leads to toxicity and frustration, and casual players deciding not to progress their characters at all at max level.
MoP satisfied all audiences because Heroic dungeons were easy and awarded Valor, and Challenge mode dungeons were there for the higher end players to earn exclusive cosmetics.
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Which is⌠what i said, opposed to the person i replied to.
Well yes, the LFG tool didnt help when it put 5 players together and none of them had the CC to handle the dungeon.
Youâre connecting the dots in some seriously weird ways, man. You donât think the difficulty of Cata dungeons and how they felt (which was on par with the difficulty of Heroic dungeons in BC and the dungeons in Vanilla, btw) could at all be attributed to just how long and how frequently people were farming the WOTLK dungeons until the end of the expansion?
The WOTLK dungeons became so easy because everyone was overgeared for them by the time it was over. Everyone was used to steamrolling them, then the new expansion comes out and suddenly you donât overgear them anymore.
But regardless of why they felt that way - how are you blaming that on raiders? If Cata dungeons were hard, that has nothing to do with raiding.
Like, youâre saying this but it didnât matter. MOP still saw significant subscriber drops the entire time.
Activision Reports 14% Drop In âWorld of Warcraftâ Subscribers (gamerant.com)
WoW+Subscriber+numbers+001+jim+younkin_b.png (560Ă352) (bp.blogspot.com)
I loved MoP, but itâs just incorrect that MOP was some massive success in terms of subs. So this whole idea that expansions are more successful the more they shy away from raid content being the pinnacle is just flat out wrong.
The best expansions in terms of sub count have always had raids giving the best loot, and there is no indication at all that moving away from that has lead to any subscriber boosts.
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Because of the long drought. Not the actual content we had to play.
I disagree.
WoW didnât kill itself for raiders, or casuals. The real crime is their attempt to please everyone in a way that actually displeases everyone. Their attempt to make everyone happy they make moves which makes everyone miserable.
ps. WoW isnât dead.
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Also, what on earth is this?
You go into a +20 with the goal of completing the +20. There is a win condition you have to meet. It isnât for learning like a normal dungeon is.
You take anything in this world that has an expectation of completion and you will gravitate towards playing with people that can help you meet that expectation. Video games have ALWAYS had difficulty curves that not everyone can meet.
This is like saying itâs toxic for someone who is severely underqualified for a position that messes up frequently and hurts a company be fired from their job, or an âathleteâ that signs up for a competitive sports team that has no idea how to play be removed from the team.
You donât sign up for something that is over your head. If you do, you are the one being toxic especially if your expectation is that they sit around and appease your lack of experience.
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BAD BOY, VERY BAD BOY. out you go! hits Dexterworgen with newspaper
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???
it was bleeding subs the entire expansion, not just during a drought. Read the links Iâm sharing. The sub count dropped immediately and persists the entire time.
I donât know man, you guys are just living in your own little world. Itâs pretty boring now. Iâm gonna eat dinner and then go raid (which is apparently code for punching babies and puppies or something to you guys)
gl
It could very well be a game for people that want to raid log.
Where Blizzard keeps tripping up is adding non-raid content and making it mandatory for raiders.
Nah where Blizz keeps tripping up is pretending raiding is everything.
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Patch by patch as my life allows I run the gambit, I either raid, play solo or donât play. So I can speak as a solo/casual player, a returning player or even as a raider. I want rewards for doing things in game, if you look at raiding in isolation if heroic/mythic gear was only required for raiding/mythic and didnt effect the other parts of the game⌠I say good donât ever give nonraiders that gear, just having the raid gera power up 100 ilvls when they enter the raid and be done with it but outside of raids and in other content streams they need to be more inline with other players, specificlaly because the game suffers when there is too big a difference between the top and bottom rung of players⌠I have over 15 years of experience in wow, I am never going to be bottom rung but I cant bring in new players or friends that dont have that experience because the game sux for them⌠thats why wow is dying, it not about the shinnies its that the devs cannot think of anyway to make players feel good other than by rewarding the shinnies⌠player power is the only reward that they dish out, and its raiders that want power. Imagine if raiding only gave transmog, and all power came from systems like anima/reknown⌠raiders would quit, depending on how fun it was to play through those systems casuals might quit too, thats the difference casuals/solo care about experiences, when the content is designed around throughput metrics that casuals cant hit they lose interest.
Again neither he nor you seem to understand, gear does not automatically equal fun to non-radiers⌠thats the core issue.
I am not blaming you, I am expressing why I tend to quit when there is no content for me or I am not having fun, and given the game has gone from over 10 million to under 2 million, I am not alone⌠its not about âme vs youâ, âus vs themâ⌠I genuinely want wow to be the best game it can be, I am expressing why I feel disassociated with it.
PS: I do raid and it is very enjoyable and one thing blizzard always does well, flex size raids are literally the best thing blizzard has done to wow since it launched, more socially supportive features and gamemodes (mentoring?) would definitely aid in wows success.
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This doesnât even make sense. We keep raiding well past progression when weâre fully geared and donât need upgrades, to the point where the rewards are even worse than transmog lmao
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The core issue is you guys canât agree on that. Plenty of people ITT were specifically demanding more rewards
Except theyâve never done this since WoD.
There has been tons of content outside of raiding for the last 3 expansions.
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I am tired of killing wolves, birds and etc.
I mean, all that is actually true.
However, times change. If the raid content was as boring as it was as Vanilla, the game would be dead. These things have to evolve.
Raiders are more likely to unsub when they spend less time in the game. See: Warlords of Draenor. I believe this has been straight up confirmed by Ion. This is why Blizzard creates grinds like the Conduit and Socket grind.
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You mean like it was in the early days? Aka when wow had the most players? Linear progression raid to raid etc? Not the easy catch ups to the latest patches?
There is a broarder range of content than there has ever been. Iâm not saying itâs impossible to get bored etc but what are you wanting to change exactly?
What would you ideal changes be?