WoW killed itself for raiders over 7 years

[Kaemane-area-52]

I dunno. I fall sleep in raids all the time, maybe just a personal preference.

[Leafblight-dark-iron (Leafblight)]

Bull . When LFR was announced i LOVED the idea, i thought it would be normal raiding with a queue system and i always run tons of alts so i figured i’d benefit from it.

Once i played it i realized it was a neutered version of the raid with no real challenge and the inevitable toxic nonsense of a queue’d group without responsibility. Outside of “forced queue’s” (fishing for legendaries in Legion) i’ve never done LFR since.

[Timbaeslice-frostmourne]

@Alasa-proudmoore

they constantly complain

there you go again, off quoting a group of people who you’ve made up yourself and apparently live rent free in your head.

[Vitalia-sisters-of-elune]

@Ddzz-illidan

Korthia is now elitist-driven content?

Indirectly, yes.

Korthia was the elitist development team’s answer for those who wanted power progression through casual, open world, or solo content. (See Preach’s interview with Ion.)

Elitist high-end-content streamers praised Korthia for being an option for casuals, while also commenting that they would never want to do it themselves. (See various streamers comment on 9.1 PTR content.)

The problem with Korthia is that the currency and rep grind is too extreme, while rewards are highly dependent on RNG and much time wasting. Previous expansions allowed people to earn Heroic-ish gear by doing targetable activities with reliable rewards.

Korthia (and 9.1 overall) just proves that Shadowlands developers were not willing to change their tune on gear elitism. It was probably originally conceived as Stygia 2.0 for raiders to grind out sockets and conduits.

[Mordots-doomhammer]

I don’t raid mythic, but we should get AOTC. I have no problem with LFR. I’ve even done some in the past to fill in conduit and memory gaps. I think it’s a good system that lets people see the content without needing to join a more dedicated raid guild.

It used to be that you could tell a raider just by looking at them, but those days seem long gone.

I’m looking forward to Pantheon to see how this works in this day and age. On one hand I’m excited about going a bit oldschool again, but on the other I’m not sure how realistic it is for me at my age with my responsibilities either. I just can’t dedicate the same amount of time I used to.

[Ddzz-illidan]

@Vitalia-sisters-of-elune

@Ddzz-illidan

M+ players are pretty much guaranteed a 252 upgrade every week

Incorrect.

You can get (and I have in fact gotten) 3 Great Vault options that are the same slot as each other and/or the same slot as what you already have and/or the same slot as your legendary.

Only on the first week of the season are you 100% guaranteed an upgrade. The chance of getting an upgrade decreases with each subsequent week, particularly once you have at least several slots at 252. This is why the Great Vault (severely timegated RNG reward) is worse than bonus rolls with loot actually dropping from content.

Then why am I wearing half M+ vault/valor pieces like every other raider in the game that hasn’t been 10/10M for 3+ weeks?

It isn’t incorrect. You are speaking on a theory. I am speaking on reality. M+ loot is literally fine.

The chance at an upgrade diminishes every week for EVERYONE, not just the great vault. It is the same deal in raid.

That is why someone who only does one will always be at a disadvantage against those who do both. The reason raiders iLvl is typically higher is because they almost always do both.

[Ddzz-illidan]

@Vitalia-sisters-of-elune

The problem with Korthia is that the currency and rep grind is too extreme, while rewards are highly dependent on RNG and much time wasting

This depends what rewards you’re looking for. A ton of players do not care about the conduits or sockets and are only there for mounts and achievements, which are a very easy grind.

Easy gear acquisition obviously isn’t as pressing of an issue to the large majority of the playerbase otherwise it would be addressed more frequently. Stop thinking your desires represent the broader audience and you may get somewhere.

[Ddzz-illidan]

@Vitalia-sisters-of-elune

Elitist high-end-content streamers praised Korthia for being an option for casuals

What are you doing?

[Snozm-malganis]

Shadowlands gives free normal and heroic gear to solo players as it is.

What it really is that solo players want is free max level bis gear for logging in.

It’s not going to happe.

[Zeimos-sargeras]

It kind of sounds like the OP is mad he is not getting endgame gear from non endgame content? Why do you need 252 gear if you’re not progging in Mythic SoD or pushing +20s? What do you expect to be the reward for doing end game content if it’s not endgame gear?

@Vitalia-sisters-of-elune

PvP gear had to be nerfed starting in 9.1 so that raiders don’t feel forced to do rated PvP for the “free” weapon.

It wasn’t just the weapon. The Badge and Insignia were BiS trinkets for a ridiculous number of specs in PvE content. It’s part of the reason arena boosting became so popular. You can’t whine about player choice in how they want to gear and also whine about PVP vendors/gear getting nerfed in PvE content.

[Mordots-doomhammer]

I wouldn’t say it’s easy. I still have yet to see Fleshwing mount after like weeks and weeks of killing him daily.

[Ddzz-illidan]

The drop %s aren’t the difficulty though. What I mean is anyone can do them, they don’t take a lot of time, and there’s frequent respawns so you can do them whenever. that’s what I mean by easy.

To say that’s elitist-driven content like the other guy said is just wrong

[Mordots-doomhammer]

ya fair enough.

The conduit/socket grind is terrible tho. I do wish they’d increase relic drops a bit.

[Vitalia-sisters-of-elune]

@Ddzz-illidan

What are you doing?

The main value of Korthia for me now is to send an alt from each covenant there every day to make sure there aren’t any daily quests with transmog rewards.

Otherwise, 9.1 is a break patch for me until my sub runs out. (Had to get the pretty birdie mount….)

If 9.1.5 introduces Torghast gearing, or some other gearing system improvements, I would be willing to come back.

[Lightwood-nagrand (Lightwood)]

@Robokappa-sargeras

sounds to me like your small circle of friends is the minority.

[Poraha-moon-guard]

@Vitalia-sisters-of-elune

Virtually all of the bad design decisions made throughout the past 7 years can be explained through the lens of pleasing raiders, or creating systems complimentary to raids to keep raiders subscribed and doing content outside of raids.

To some extent this is true. But the fact is that those in charge of future design do not have a finger on the pulse of any segment of the playerbase. Even when they try to satisfy raiders they do inexplicable things that piss them off.

@Vitalia-sisters-of-elune

PvP gear had to be nerfed starting in 9.1 so that raiders don’t feel forced to do rated PvP for the “free” weapon. This undid most of the development progress in bringing back PvP vendors as a legitimate gearing method.

The work that went into PvP gearing is the opposite of “development progress”. Rating-locked ilvl is a system that was rightfully abandoned numerous expansions ago by devs who explained at the time why it was bad for PvP. PvP participation has fallen off a cliff, and the minuscule changes they are making in 9.1.5 are unlikely to bring back any players who have quit the content or the game entirely.

@Vitalia-sisters-of-elune

World content and soloable content gear rewards had to be nerfed starting in 9.0 so that raiders would not feel that the “free” rewards were too close in power to raiding rewards.

The complaints were that people who didn’t deserve gear - because they don’t do progression - were getting crap gear they didn’t deserve through easy content. The rewards were never relevant to raiders, but some of them felt the appeal of vendor value for useless gear to be irresistible.

@Robokappa-sargeras

sounds to me like your small circle of friends is the minority.

You think you have thousands of close personal friends but you don’t.

[Vitalia-sisters-of-elune]

@Poraha-moon-guard

The work that went into PvP gearing is the opposite of “development progress”. Rating-locked ilvl is a system that was rightfully abandoned numerous expansions ago by devs who explained at the time why it was bad for PvP.

I agree that the rating-locked upgrade system is bad for PvP gear, and think that there should just be Honor and Conquest gear without upgrades, both earnable in unranked PvP. However, getting that PvP vendor finally after Legion and BfA felt like progress.

@Poraha-moon-guard

PvP participation has fallen off a cliff, and the minuscule changes they are making in 9.1.5 are unlikely to bring back any players who have quit the content or the game entirely.

We don’t have official numbers, but from my experience it is much harder this patch trying to find players to do rated PvP. One of my PvP communities is even doing SoD runs now instead of rated BGs….

[Robokappa-sargeras (Robokappa)]

you know i’m right. it’s okay. you can’t win them all. certainly not against me.

[Alasa-proudmoore]

@Mordots-doomhammer

What? Dungeons drop purples?

They did for a while. Surprised me when i got a few out of deadmines. But then they changed back.

@Snozm-malganis

What it really is that solo players want is free max level bis gear for logging in.

It’s not going to happe.

Stop lying. No one wants that. We know you THINK everyone wants it, but no one does.

[Zenazin-wyrmrest-accord]

10 man still exists?