For me, the fun and challenging part of that game is seeing what I can pull together by spending under 100 gold on the AH.
In nearly all P2W systems you are buying a currency from the maker of the game with real life money and in turn using that currency to buy in game items. In WoW that is gold which you can buy directly from Blizzard. That gold can be used immediately on BoEs.
I just did.
I think your equivalence is a little dramatic but I don’t disagree with the latter half of your statement.
Your definition of what P2W is is pretty narrow and that is fine; not really going to lose any sleep if we can’t see eye to eye on what that definition is.
I think WoW is kinda pay to win. Too many aspects of the game can be bypassed with real life cash, and for me, that ruins the game a bit. I can understand why the OP’s friend might not want to dive into this game considering the environment its monetization has fostered.
I would say he’s 100% right.
Sure he could go farm gold easily enough but Blizz made it possible to bypass that mechanic and pay for runs in any content you wish until you had max ilvl gear or titles.
The game is PTW I rest my case
“If you think WoW is pay to win, you’re in for a rude awakening when you play an actual pay to win game.”
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if in game currency being traded for carries is p2w every online game is p2w since people just do it in secret instead
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Tell him to buy aotc and then see if he gets invited to anything.
No, in all the P2W games, you either are buying the buffs/equipment with the cash directly, OR you are buying a currency you cannot use with anything else.
No, you really didn’t.
The issue being you are conflating players making gold via services, and paying the company for something. Players have always sold goods and services in game, that is the economy of the game. The only difference is currently instead of paying chinese gold farmers people pay blizz for gold, then either use the gold for those runs, repairs, etc.
I won’t lose sleep either don’t get me wrong, I just see something I know is wrong, I will say it. Just how it is. You don’t want to see me in churches lol. There is a reason I literally cannot enter a few of them.
How about you try to respect his or her opinion, and maybe try to see it from their point of view.
That is like saying we should be respectful of flat earther’s opinion and see from their point of view. There are fundamental truths and facts.
Pay2win games you give the game company direct money for either goods/services that empower you above other players directly, or a specific currency that is used just for that purpose.
If we could buy valor directly, or loot directly from blizz, or something that ups the ilevel of any gear they yes it would be pay to win.
Buying gold to do whatever you want with it? No. Since gold is used for repairs, crafting goods, pets, mounts, literally everything in the game, it isn’t that. It is not respecting an opinion when it is just factually wrong by every definition except their own.
We do not respect the opinions of people that call the sky purple instead of blue.
We do not respect the opinions of people that say grass tastes like cotton candy, and try to eat it because it would be disrespectful of them.
We do not respect the opinion of someone that thinks we should drive on the left side of the road in the US and then allow them to do it.
You can respect the person while also telling them they are wrong.
I don’t but it is a thing.
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I mean there’s just no other way for me to explain this
To me, wow isn’t p2w. Getting KSH, or CE or whatever if it’s purchased will never feel like “winning” to me. It’s not a black and white answer.
Getting full bis isn’t “winning” it’s just a stepping stone.
I don’t “win” until I feel like I achieved something which I don’t get from purchasing ANYTHING in this game.
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Laugh in their face and move on.
Old tired debate, OP. It depends on your definition of what pay to win is and what that incorporates. Some of us do think paying for cutting edge, 2400 pvp rating, and high IO score are in fact tenants of pay to win. Others think the simple act of being able to buy gold to purchase gear is pay to win.
The fact is all of these things have always existed in wow, so it’s really moot. It just used to be under the table on shady third party websites and now it’s upfront and in your face. I prefer a legitimate route to it than people getting scammed by third parties. Policing it is impossible, as Blizzard found out over a decade.
In the era of “language is mine to define”, I guess so.
I was raised in an era you learned language, not invented your own and made everything about what you want or think.
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best part about wow is everyone’s definition of “winning” is different
play ur game who cares what other people do. p2w or not.
No. Language has always been an evolving abstract idea of the world around us. While there are objective truths, like you did X or Y, they aren’t as many as you’d hope there are and that’s a fable.
Even the color you see is questionable. Color blind people don’t see red the way you see red. But you still call it red. That’s just flat up reality.
Don’t bother debating with me. People with black and white view points like you get stuck in a rut and I’d rather not waste a full hour of my time.
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you pull out the credit card and pay players with gold you bought with token to carry you all the way thru mythics all the way too a key 20+
and in arenas the same 1 million gold to carry
then you vault is lovely in fairy credit card land after reset days
enter sarcasm
If a new player can either spend the entire patch grinding away but never reaching the level he needs to until the very last day, you consider that “pay for convenience” and conveniently ignore the pay to win aspects of a mechanic that is in every pay to win game.
And you actually think players can farm enough gold to buy mythic raid carries every week. That’s hilarious. Millions of gold a week, sure thing. Anybody can put up an army of bots to flip stuff instead of actually playing the game, right? Is that how you made your gold, instead of actually playing the game?
“Pay to win game” is in the eye of the beholder. Clearly your definition is different from many people. I don’t consider wow a “pay to win game”, yet it has some of those mechanics.
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Which in no way couters what I said.
Language evolve by the community using it, not what YOU, individually think.
And you just proved my point. YOu cant talk to someone who thinks words mean what they alone want.
For the people that don’t think WoW has P2W elements…what the hell do yall think P2W is?
P2W =/= pay and the game plays for you
P2W = pay and you get stuff that makes it easier to progress
You can literally buy level cap and (with extra steps) gear
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IMHO: Wrong argument to use… an ilvl 420+ piece of gear doesn’t care if you’ve earned it or not, it still effects your character the same way.
If you want to argue WoW isn’t P2W, it’s going to be an uphill battle… because you can buy in-game currency for real money through Blizzard directly and the reality is, you can use that in-game currency to either buy the best gear directly or buy carries to get it.
A much better argument is that most specs these days are so damn complicated, having good gear isn’t the I-Win button it used to be. Back in BC when a Warlock’s “rotation” was to use a curse and then cast Shadow Bolt for 5 minutes, gear was about the only thing that mattered. Today, some rotations have 20-24 steps… and vary significantly based on circumstance (IE: movement, or multiple targets).
I’m an average Shadow Priest - I’ll do 50% more damage as a good number of priests in similiar gear… and 50% less than other priests in similiar gear. Sure, I could buy slightly better gear, but the only way I’m going to noticably perform better is clean up my rotation and cooldown decision making.