I have a friend who refuses to play WoW because he considers the game P2W, he thinks being able to buy gold and then trade gold for achievs/gear/etc is P2W but in reality he doesn’t understand how easy it is to make gold and that having those things mean nothing if you didn’t earn it yourself.
I’m just not sure what else I can say to convince him out of that mindset.
What would you say to someone who thinks like this?
You can’t fix st… nm.
I’d say it’s pay for convenience, not to win. You can get the achievements and gear you want without paying. Might take longer than you want, but it’s very much doable.
You should give him one of your fully gear toons and say go pull my dps on it without looking at a guide… i bet you that he will fail and then go but its p2w
Since you can buy runs with gold and you can buy gold, I guess most of it is.
People who think that way usually don’t have a clear definition of pay to win.
WoW Has pay to win elements in certain aspects, also depending on how we define “winning” in an MMO.
Tough to say, if this is the kind of mentality your friend has, he probably won’t make it far or even enjoy the game. Feels very copey.
WoW kinda is P2W though.
Real life money can pretty much buy a player anything they might want from the game.
Just because there’s a 3rd party involved in the transaction does not change that it’s P2W.
It’s effectively an indirect pay to win model. The real money goes to Blizzard, then Blizzard has subcontractors perform the service in exchange for fake money. But, instead of Blizzard paying the subcontractors directly, they give the means of payment back to the person purchasing the service. -ends up with a RMT
This way Blizzard can deny that they are providing a pay to win service. The gearing system is not going to change. Blizzard is unethical and the system is corrupt
Since he would by buying the runs from other players, ask him how those players got to the point where they could boost him.
doesnt matter if you earned it, if you’re still winning
the game is OBJECTIVELY p2w, theres absolutely no denying that and blizzard is embracing it
there are very few legit ways to actually make gold, most people that have large amounts of gold used exploits, “3rd party tools” or were at the right spot at the right time
i dare anyone to make millions from absolute scratch with no connections while actually playing the game (20s done, raiding etc) and not botting the AH with TSM
I like tacos
if you can buy any achievement in the game, I guess it is…
i would say your friend is completely right…
the second blizzard enabled wow tokens for real currency and still allowed boosting for gold to be legal, wow became p2w.
you can spend real currency, get gold, use gold to buy mythic plus 20 timed runs.
p2w
yeah making gold isn’t very easy… its extremely time consuming.
i think if someone spends time to make gold and then uses that gold to buy achieves, that’s fine because they are using their efforts in game to trade that for other achievements.
but when you can buy gold with real currency, it becomes p2w.
I’d play a game with them and another friend/person (Here on referred to as “friend 2”)… Something physical, real world. Something with objectively no P2W mechanics. Then I’d pay friend 2 to throw that game, and do everything they can to increase the likelihood that I win. Then I’d look at friend 1 and be like “You see my point?”
Or take a game like Elden Ring / Dark Souls (whatever) and pay friend 2 to complete them for me, in front of friend 1.
Take them for a stroll down the road to the (hypothetical) person who lives a few houses away, who has some $10,000+ computer with just all the best stuff, multiple high quality monitors, everything. All the stuff. Ask them if they are paying to win at every game they play, regardless of whether the game itself has P2W.
I mean its technically is pay to win… with someone with alot of cash can get all the end game gear and achives by buying with real money via tokens
eh. Blizzard trounced the gold sellers to BECOME the gold sellers.
It’s very much P2W with tokens in place.
Nothing. Trying to convince someone that they are wrong to feel the way they do and should stop having an original opinion and blindly accept yours is going to get you nowhere.
If he wants some mount and buys an achievement to get it, he’s fulfilled his goal. Not everybody wants to suffer to get bling. Not everybody wants to grind gold. /shrug
I do agree with you. Although technically in the strictest sense, you can pay to get carried by a lot of content in this game. To me it is not very representative of most of the community. You will never have your progress harmed by some small amount people participating in these things, which I think is more your point. At no point in this game have ever felt that I needed to pay for something to achieve anything, nor did I feel like I was at a disadvantage.
I think the most common thing that happens is people pay to get AoTC or a Mythic 15+ just so they can actually get into groups easier.
It’s also, very cost inefficient. the few people who do that are shelling out some serious cash, a very slightly skilled player can easily do in 30 min.
It’s definitely heavy on elements of p2w. Reminds me a lot of mobile games. Wait two days to complete X task or purchase and spend in game currency to complete task immediately. Basically the same formula WoW has now with tokens.