Wow is peak P2W

[Adaia-moon-guard]

Yeah I mean, if you hit 1800 in S2, your pvp ilvl is only 10 points behind 2400. In all honesty, that difference isn’t massive.

[Kurtloder-azgalor (Kurtloder)]

The problem with WoW is Blizzard offers the outlet to do so by allowing gold to be sold for real life $$. In FFXIV it is explicity against their terms of service and people get banned for buying gold.

So WoW is allowing people to pay real life cash for a currency they can use to get a huge advantage in the game.

[Illiaster-moon-guard (Illiaster)]

@Kurtloder-azgalor

The problem with WoW is Blizzard offers the outlet to do so by allowing gold to be sold for real life $$. In FFXIV it is explicity against their terms of service and people get banned for buying gold.

FF14 rarely bans RMT buyers – the reason why people dont exclusively call out FF14 for it is because FF14’s endgame doesnt involve gil (gil is basically a dead currency outside of housing). SE realized a long time ago that it was better to outright ban the botting and selling end rather than outright banning players who buy gil in terms of profit.

P2W doesnt count for legality at all. WoW and any game with a player-based economy will always be P2W by definition.

[Trustlvlfour-zuljin]

Times_change.jpg

RMT boosting has been around for many years and will never go away. People do it for many reasons but I suspect the primary reason why people do it now is simply because blizz has placed far too many hurdles at end game that take too much time and have too much RNG.

There was a time when leveling up was a big part of the game. Now, leveling is all but completely deleted. Replaced by systems at end game that account for roughly 30% of player power. People ain’t got no time for that nonsense. So now you just buy a carry. Simple. Flexible. Effecient. No drama. On your time budget, not a guilds etc etc.

[Lopi-darkspear]

I wouldn’t say buying tokens is p2w LOL. If u actually took a small amount of ur time u can acquire a decent amount of gold easily. Effort is what it takes. Everyone eventually had to work there way up to be at the top.

[Nui-feathermoon (Nui)]

If you think that this is peak P2W then you must have never played any other video game, ever. Without getting into the age old debate as to what the definition of P2W is, WoW is not even close to being one of the most egregious when it comes to paying to win.

[Azorahaí-area-52]

@Lycor-tichondrius

You can literally buy wow tokens and do everything in the game instead of what it really takes. This is peak pay to win unlike anything else.

This is not peak p2w. You have to actually find boosters and still go through the content to get the best gear ect. You don’t just buy a token and everything appears in your bags.

Their are many games out there where you can literally swipe and buy all the best items in the game without doing any actual content, ontop of being able to buy boosts for doing the content.

[Abendroth-zuljin (Abendroth)]

@Lokka-the-venture-co

As soon as other players are involved, it is no longer pay to win, because if paying someone else to play the game for you constitutes pay to win, then literally every game ever made is pay to win, and the term means nothing. By that logic, doing your big brother’s chores for a week in exchange for him beating Akuma for you makes Street Fighter a pay to win game.

That statement wasn’t seen enough. If boosting fits your description of pay to win, then every single game ever made fit that description and it loses its meaning.

[Bojanglz-whisperwind (Bojanglz)]

@Lycor-tichondrius

You could buy boosting services on shady chinese websites and stuff before the token… a small amount of people did this and often got banned if found out. The token just made it available in game. This legitimizes pay2win and actively promotes it.

How can you not see this? Blizzard just gets their cut now.

You can buy gold from gold farmers in FFXIV, ESO, NW, SWTOR, GW2, etc. What’s your point? You do realize by your theory then all mmos are p2w right?

Thank you though for another unneeded “WoW is P2W” thread when you have ZERO clue what P2W actually is.

It’s funny though how worried you are about what other people do and how they play the game vs worrying about yourself.

[Benmarch-zuljin]

@Kurtloder-azgalor

Imagine thinking gaining character power for real life cash isn’t paying to win?

Did their character get stronger? Yes
Did they do so using real life cash via the store? Yes

I’m gonna quote something I wrote in another similar thread that precisely describe what you represent and the depth of your thought process…

@Benmarch-zuljin

See again, people like you really likes to keep it overly simplistic.
It’s a theme really with all of the people pushing this point and it is not a coincidence.

You’re doing that because more in-depth analysis demonstrates without the shadow of a doubt that this categorization as “it is” and “it isn’t” is intellectually dishonest at best. So you’re not willing to go in depth to defend the point. Why would you?
It doesn’t help you, it essentially cripples your positions by clearly showing that

1. At it’s core the token was the least terrible outcome of 2 bad situation

• One being letting goldfarmer and scammer exploit the player base
  vs
• The second being to give player the ability to aquire gold via selling in-game time in the AH
  So advocating for it’s removal is tantamount to asking to bring back the game to a worst place than it is right now without suggesting anything to cover for the problem it is keeping in relative check.

2. When put on scale of “P2W” the game barely makes it up on the scale as nothing that can be skipped (with a 4 step process let’s not forget to mention it) isn’t achievable in a similar amount of time by someone with no money at all.

In fact the whole process in WoW would be better represented by “paying to catch up” as all the carries that occurs would be made by people who have already cleared the content a long time ago and no longer needed anything from it.
This furthers the point that they do not get ahead of anyone because for a carry to be able to happen, you need to have an already substantial amount of players with gear far surpassing the difficulty level of the content they are attempting to carry. Usually for that to happen, as I said, means that those players already cleared most of the relevant content and can now focus on carrying other players and are willing to do so.
Realistically it means that you can only really “P2W” once a major part of the player base already far surpasses you.

At which point you don’t get ahead of anyone, hence making the P2W argument null because no advantage was gained over anyone at all.
The players paying for those will also never realistically catch up or get ahead anyone either because their approach to the game is intrinsically lazy.

[Chïntzy-aerie-peak]

@Lycor-tichondrius

The people who buy wow tokens for game time are an extreme minority.

You have that backwards.

@Lycor-tichondrius

You can literally buy wow tokens and do everything in the game instead of what it really takes.

I only spend gold to buy them from ah to play for free, I appreciate the players that are selling them.

@Lycor-tichondrius

You used to be able to trust AOTC or KSM or a pvp rating for competence.

You still can for the most part, it’s also easy to see if someone paid their way if you really wanted to. Maybe you should just make friends instead of trying to judge people off these silly achievements.

[Lycor-tichondrius]

@Bojanglz-whisperwind

You can buy gold from gold farmers in FFXIV, ESO, NW, SWTOR, GW2, etc. What’s your point? You do realize by your theory then all mmos are p2w right?

You would actually have a point if the token didnt exist.

[Pyri-shadowsong]

@Kalaen-black-dragonflight

That’s why they officially banned boosters last month.

they did no such thing

[Benmarch-zuljin]

@Bojanglz-whisperwind

You can buy gold from gold farmers in FFXIV, ESO, NW, SWTOR, GW2, etc. What’s your point? You do realize by your theory then all mmos are p2w right?

Thank you though for another unneeded “WoW is P2W” thread when you have ZERO clue what P2W actually is.

It’s funny though how worried you are about what other people do and how they play the game vs worrying about yourself.

I goes further than that, the meaning they give to “P2W” makes the whole concept irrelevant to name because everything can fit that definition.
In their twisted definition, the shed I bought for my backyard fits the definition of P2W because I don’t need to win anything, I just need to get ANYTHING AT ALL for money and then someone else can unilaterally define it as “getting ahead” in some manner.

It is as if WoW only value was determined by “gear and achievements” and everything else had no value.
Reaction time, strategical analysis, knowledge of the game and mechanics are evacuated completely of their speech as they meant nothing.
They think WoW as a rock-paper-scissor game where you can pay to get a rock and claim it beats paper because you paid for it.

[Saángreal-moon-guard (Saángreal)]

I don’t live by achievements to enjoy the game.

And can anyone really win in a MMO?

[Illiaster-moon-guard (Illiaster)]

@Lycor-tichondrius

You would actually have a point if the token didnt exist.

So is it that fact that you can buy gold P2W? Or that you can use gold to buy boosts/carries P2W?

Because Classic doesnt have the token and suffers from a large amount of similar issues with boosting.

[Lycor-tichondrius]

@Illiaster-moon-guard

Because Classic doesnt have the token and suffers from a large amount of similar issues with boosting.

Any gold purchased with real world currency for boosting goes against the ToS in classic.

@Illiaster-moon-guard

So is it that fact that you can buy gold P2W?

yes.

[Illiaster-moon-guard (Illiaster)]

@Lycor-tichondrius

Any gold purchased for boosting goes against the ToS.

Yet it still happens. Is Classic pay2win then?

[Lycor-tichondrius]

@Illiaster-moon-guard

Yet it still happens. Is Classic pay2win then?

There is a logical fallacy called false equivalence. look it up.

[Sasarai-blades-edge]

Peak? We are not being slightly hyperbolic there?
I could list 50 games that are way worse and over 200 if we are talking mobile