thanks for the laughs guy
Trust me. The jokes on you.
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Still staying in overly simplistic meaningless statement I see.
In other news water is wet, question is:
Did WoW immerse themselves in the water or tipped their toe in it?
Because their would be a stark difference in wetness between the 2 of them.
people in here really tryin to say wow isnt p2w lololol
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you obviously have never tried a game made by gamigo if you think wow is bad.
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Youâre in here still looking silly by saying it is?
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People in here really phased from reality to say WoW is a P2W model game.
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Youâve dodged both my last two questions when we talked. How about you answer them?
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How many times do I swipe my credit card to get a ranked 1v1 arena bracket in 10.0
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Theyâll never answer because the answers would give elements of truth that are inconvenient to the point their are pushing. They are full of inconsistencies that they do not want to acknowledge because it would make their empty statement fall apart. They fall behind overly broad statement deprived of any nuance.
They also evacuate the notion of control out of their language.
For example:
Their position: The token made WoW P2W.
Reality: Blizzard does not sell anything on their shop that gives players direct in-game power (IE: Get permanent % stat buff for your character or limited buff to make you able to solo difficult instances by yourself). So it doesnât clear one of the basic requirement of P2W which is upgrades gated by a paywall.
Their position: "It doesnât matter that they donât sell directly specific powers or services like that because the token can be transformed (the number of steps donât matter either apparently) into gold which can then be used to buy carries to third parties and blizzard is the one making the token available to be used, so WoW is p2w.
Letâs dot it step by step
Someone buy token - No P2W yet, nothing was gained except game time
Someone sells token on AH- No P2W yet, player gained gold in exchange for game time
Someone use the gold for buying a mount, No P2W yet either, mounts a relatively cheap and a bunch are literally free.
Someone use it to buy a carry through content, RED FLAG ITâS P2W.
(I already went into why this is still not P2W but I wonât refer to it here)
Good, we have identified our âproblemâ here
Letâs âPRETENDâ that buying carries with gold could be considered p2w.
Letâs go back to their argument
The token MADE WoW P2W
It doesnât matter that the Blizz are not the one offering the services themselves.
The problem is that those 2 statements cannot credibly be held at the same time.
If we hold true that it doesnât matter that Blizz are not offering the services/buff then it is also just as much true that it doesnât matter if they are the one offering to buy gold with real money or not.
Was it possible to do such a thing before the token? YES
On that premise, then WoW has been P2W from the start and the token had nothing to do with it. So following this train of thought (extrapolate from their positions) it would be false to say that the token made WoW P2W, the ingredients required to call it P2W were there before the token and it doesnât matter if Blizz are the ones selling the gold or not.
(In fact with this intellectual stretch you could say that pretty much any game is P2W since the control of the dev team over their game doesnât matter, you just need to pay someone else to play the game for you and get steam achievements and the game is suddenly p2w.)
Some will bring up that it was against TOS therefor making ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD, well here comes the kicker to their position. The pervert side effect of evacuating the notion of control when they say âIt doesnât matter that the Blizz are not the one offering the services themselves.â is this:
Since their control doesnât matter for this, then it stands to be true for other form of control too. The TOS is nothing but a control tool/guideline. So if weâre saying control donât matter then it doesnât matter what the TOS says.
Now even if we forget this logical dead end.
For the TOS to have any kind of relevance, it needs to be ENFORCEABLE .
Even if selling gold was against TOS, Blizz was unable to ENFORCE it because they didnât have the resources to effectively squash the problem. They tried, for a LONG time and they couldnât do it. It is made even more true by the fact that those same gold seller who left the game because of the token made a come back in Classic and TBC.
The solution Blizz came up with to kick them out the game was to make them leave by themselves by giving the players a way to get gold from each others without compromising their financial information or WoW account.
All of the questions that are asked of them would lead to this conclusion but all they can say is âlul WoW p2w why you no see thatâ
Itâs dumb enough that their position is illogical, itâs made worse by the fact that the thing they are pointing to, to justify it, is just as pointless.
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Peak P2W? No⌠no itâs not. Youâve never played a peak P2W game if you think this is peak P2W. Is there a P2W element? Sure. Has it always been there? Yup. Is it moreso than vanilla? I think thatâs fair. But is this peak P2W? Absolutely not⌠Not even close.
Peak P2W would be 200h grinds that can be bypassed with money, full gear sets directly from the shop, and combat enhancing potions that cannot be obtained in game. That would be peak P2W. Where you have not only massive time saving advantages⌠youâre also literally just stronger than the opposition regardless.
Weâre no where near that.
Seriously, go play one of those games and have the realization that you COULD grind for the next 200 hours⌠or⌠or you could just⌠pay $10 and already be done with that grind. I mean⌠itâs just $10⌠and Iâll be so much stronger! Why not⌠Ya⌠Letâs do it⌠Oh!! OH! And I can get this potion over here for $3 that gives me 10% crit in dungeons⌠I mean⌠thatâs just $13. Thatâs no biggy. Multiply that thought process across 1 million players and the company just made $13 million dollarsâŚ
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Sensible comment, thank you. 
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what did they win?
A mount wrapped in gray parses!
yea but by the time they get that mount pretty much almost everyone that care about the content has had it for awhile and itâs pretty much old news
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Do you have a source for this?
Yeah thatâs what these guys donât understand. Theyâre buying an iPhone 10 when the 12 is out.
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You donât do keys. you donât raid and you donât pvp. Youâre right, no point in joining a guild if you cap out at world content.
wait you trusted AOTC and KSM since the start?
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I do all that daily. Did about 440 keys this season between my 2 warriors, did a few weeks pugging the raid on 2 chars to get the dom sockets I wanted, I am challenger II gear on 2 arms sets. I didnât farm some arbitrary thing you consider core to a good io profile because I donât care about io profile. From a quick glance I played like 10x more of the season than you, though. I donât understand what you get out of feeling that way 