You are correct that gold buying existed prior to the token but it was against the ToS and bannable.
Now it is a feature of the game. Many people like this. But many also don’t. This thread keeps degenerating into semantics over the what the definition of “Pay2win” really is.
At the end of the day, if you buy wow tokens then the game can become pay2win for you. This is exchanging real world currency for advantage in game…
Source for that please.
The gap is due to player skill not because of systems. I got all of my +20 portals back in August with zero raid gear or those silly gems. Still have not step foot in the 9.1 raid.
Do you know what average means? It does not mean everyone is on the same field.
Semantics implies a minor quibble in definitiions. Not a complete and utter misapplication of a term that only really profits the real predatory companies who will get cover when you equate their scummy systems with a relatively tame measure that’s basically the most effective way to counter gold sellers and the account attacks (on their users as well as non-gold buying players) that come with them.
At the end of the day no one can buy any advantage in the game before someone gets it without paying. It requires players who do not need any gold bought runs to actually do the runs. It’s not pay to win, it’s pay to cross the line some point down the road after the competition is over.
All this does is make the conversation pointless about p2w mechanics by dragging in other forms of monetization into it. Talk about boosting and currency purchasing for their own merits, it’ll keep the actual issues focused and not just drowned out because you’re mislabeling the issue you want to talk about. P2W is a really scummy practice, and it needs to be dealt with, but by expanding it pointlessly into all forms of monetization you water it down and make people sick about hearing it.
You’re free to agree with anything you want to. You still would be wrong.
Then what’s this?
The gap is smaller than it has ever been. The gap in wrath for IcC catchup was 77 ilvls meaning ZM would be rewarding 207 ilvl gear not 233-252.
That’s not pay to win nor do you clearly understand what pay to win is.
How does that say anything like that? If legendaries are evidence of P2W, then are Mythic BoEs? They give you an advantage over the players who don’t enter mythic raids, and can be purchased for gold.
You still need the skill to back up the gear. When I’m gearing up a new toon, I’ll beat people in LFR/normal pugs who have ~20 ilvls on me in damage on some bosses.
Only because you don’t understand what true “p2w” is.
I think the other reason why you can’t participate in the end game is you don’t have any toons at level 60…
Wut?
10chars
directed at the person I quoted, they don’t have the level 60 achievement. not sure why it tagged you tbh.
So what did they won?
I’m just giving you a hard time lol.
we all know you also dont have a level 60 toon snozh. You just hack the forums 
All posts/threads/topics on p2w tend to degenerate into semantics because there is no concrete definition of the term. How can there be when the term itself is almost indefinable.
I mean, at the core of it, was does ‘win’ even mean within the context of an MMO? How do you ‘win’ an MMO? If it was a game with a start and a definite end then sure, you could point to that and say you won or your lost. But that doesn’t exist in an MMO.
If there is no objective way to define it, then there is only subjective ways and all of those depend entirely on each person’s view of what winning means. For me, winning might be earning enough gold ingame to pay for a Token so I dont have to give Blizzard any of my money; that’s a personal financial win. For someone else, it might be beating a raid on Mythic level, or getting the hightest possible M+ key. Or completing all the achievements. Or collecting all the transmogs. Or a hundred other personal outcomes.
So I guess ultimately the whole topic is pointless and the only reason to argue about it comes down to defending your own stand against all comers. And Im out of the mental energy to keep doing that because the only people who would agree with me are those who have the same definition, and that hardly proves anything.
The one external definition that isn’t just someone’s opinion was the 1 person who tried to use the US Senate’s definition. That definition is pretty clear that what happens in wow is not classified under what they were attempting to regulate.
Hearthstone is closet to a Blizzard p2w game, and it’s only p2w if you want to play one of the overplayed, boring meta decks.
Isnt that more to do with gambling and lockboxes? I dont know US law so Im not sure what it was about, but other countries have been more concerned with the concerns about young people and gambling than how to define P2W.
Pretty much. They were trying to shoehorn wow boosting into lootboxes/having objectivlely over powered stuff in the cash shop.
Wait you can’t buy tokens with $$ and sell it for gold on the AH anymore?
How am I gonna get my 3-4 legendaries that I need for 9.2 then…
Isn’t your guild making those for you for free? Am I the only one not paying for legendaries?