Damn I wonder what you think every other mmo is if wow’s dying. Games like eso and bdo are well under a million (Most likely not even 500k) And every xiv census shows it barely hitting a million on a new expansion and dipping back to the 800-900k range later.
And those aren’t even bad numbers.
An mmo doesn’t have to be in the millions to do well.
Look at SWTOR. It still makes BioWare money. Sure it’s not the hottest MMO on the market, but it still has a community of players.
I know but people think wow not being at 12 million cause it was once at 12 million means it’s now dead.
Like wow will never hit 12 mil again and wotlk classic will prove that. Mmo’s are not big anymore.
If wotlk came out TODAY it would never reach those numbers either.
Dead
There really isn’t any data on any of them. I just judge based on livelihood of major hubs. And every FFXIV hub, major and small is more player-dense than other MMORPGs currently - and FFXIV even filters out a bunch of players on your screen due to how terribly scripted the game is.
I said it, FFXIV is terribly scripted! Crap code.
M+ isn’t super popular though, people hate it and don’t want to do it but gear is hidden in there so they feel forced to endure the suffering and do them. We already covered this.
You are confusing forced activities with popular. People don’t like Korthia but are forced to do those chores, just like M+. Most players left because they said enough is enough with these chores. That is why SL has no players. To many chores and no fun.
Everyone doesn’t hate M+ just most people do. They rather the Devs design actual content instead of focusing on boring repeat activities and trying to force people in there. This is simple. M+ is NOT content and I have a Mega thread on it which is highly upvoted.
Right Blizz thinks Korthia is popular because people are miserable in there grinding chores. That isn’t popular that is a burden that players have to endure before the game starts. M+ is the same thing. I don’t want to do M+ but I am forced to do them or Quit the game. That in itself is bad design and it’s costing WoW big time.
This MMO needs to get back to it’s routes again instead of being compartmentalized and all instances. Sorry but you are wrong and so is Blizz which is why WoW is in the worst state it’s ever been.
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YOU hate it.
You.
You don’t speak for everyone.
Please provide statistical evidence that a majority of players hate M+
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There’s no data on wow either other than reading data like auctions posted or logs posted which is what they do with ffxiv also.
Let’s pretend everything you say is correct and everyone just absolutely hates doing everything in wow.
They try making content that isn’t tied to power and no one does it. They make content with power tied to it and everybody does it, even if they hate it.
Which one do you think they will make?
And amount of people participating in endgame content which is the only thing you can do in WoW.
And how long it takes a streamer to get just 1 dps for a TBC Classic raid.
Guilds dying out, cities emptied during weekends, during the summer, etc.
I’m not speaking for everyone, I said most. Don’t matter to me enjoy this dead expansion that will lose even more players because 9.1.5 fixes nothing. WoW has massive fundamentally wrong designs in it. Until that changes this game is history. Other games don’t hide everything behind chores and players have figured that out. It’s why there was a mass exodus.
As someone who has played Blizz games for 21 years it’s sad to see how far they have fallen. Hope they change their Devs and hire someone that knows what a good MMO should look like at some point. Until then most of the player base will be enjoying other games.
Imagine playing a game and having the Devs actually listen. Other games do that. Blizz needs to learn from other companies or become a thing of the past. If the current trend keeps up there won’t be anymore WoW expansions. It’s that bad. If SL is what they are going to put out then maybe they should stop making them.
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If you want to go by amount of people participating in endgame content look at warcraftlogs vs fflogs. Wow despite needing more players (sometimes up to 3x the amount) to post logs they STILL absolutely dwarf ffxiv.
sanctum of dominationg MYTHIC ONLY aka the one that is played the least has 506,613 uploads.
the latest xiv savage has 8525, and keep in mind sanctum has been out less long even.
Start adding m+ heroic and normal raids and it’s even more lopsided.
Even alliance endgame pve is more alive than ffxiv.
Going by how many people are sitting in down doing nothing is a terrible way to judge pop. xiv has no afk logout and most people there literally do nothing but sit in town all day.
The numbers support that. SL largest player loss in history and things are about to get worse.
If that happens it was badly designed. If it’s good people will do it. It’s a game people should be doing it because it’s fun not because there is some sort of power tied to it. Holy cow how many ways does that have to be explained for you to understand 
If they make something that people will only do because there is player power in there then they failed to make a good game. This is just common sense. Games are about fun not chores. SL has no fun.
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Don’t know.
Many did Mage Tower and it was a very popular thing.
Blizzard removed it, oh crap.
Garrison was fairly popular, although not exactly what was expected.
Blizzard decided to not continue with suc ha feature, oh crap.
I think one of the non-power related activities in WoW currently, is locked behind a covenant grind.
That requires people to manually go on there, create an account and actually put their data into the system.
Many people in FFXIV do not use third party tools, it is kinda a part of the game’s culture.
Some do, many don’t.
Every expansion since cata has had a enormous drop after release. Was mop trash too? Wotlk had 12 million why was mop around 6 mil? This means cata mop wod legion bfa sl are all trash, and the next one even if they do everything you want will also have a huge drop, which I guess also makes it trash in advance.
And explain to me at which point in wow was there ever anything else to do but gain power or stay logged out. If anything there’s more now than there used to be. Wotlk was raids dungeons and pvp ONLY. No pet battles no challenge modes no archeology crafting was worthless etc.
Legion had a slight increase compared to the expansion before it.
Garrisons were despised my guy.
Nah.
The idea of them were popular.
What Blizzard turned them into was crap.
Blizzard just couldn’t improve it with the feedback they were given.
Oh wait, they don’t use feedback to improve their game… no wonder the game have had a declining playerbase.
So did wod when they were still reporting subs. It went up to 10 million and their last report also in wod was down to 6 million.
People buy the expansion play 1 month and never touch the game again. Wotlk was likely the same way but new people were coming in faster than people leaving because everyone wanted to see what was this wow thing that everyone was talking about.
lol what?
Maybe it’s because Cata was the last good expansion. I do consider Cata the last official WoW expansion. Yes MoP was trash and the first time I unsubbed and didn’t buy MoP on release. MoP is where the beginning of bad changes really took off so I jumped ship.
The problem on why expansions now drop so much after release is because there isn’t much content in them anymore. Not only that the expansions are unfinished bad products at launch that takes 2 patches to fix. SL right now is still a very incomplete expansion. BFA wasn’t completed till 8.3.
So players buy the expansion realize it’s unfinished and bad and leave which is bad for business and SL shows that the players are tired of it.
In the old expansions. For me the game starts when you have BiS gear. When there is no more power progression. So I don’t agree. Gearing up should be fast, easy and fun. Have you ever done activities in game for fun? You just do them because you like them. Which is supposed to be how every game is.
If all WoW is going to be now where it’s a giant chores list chasing power and you never get to have fun. Count me out, also count out the millions that left. SL is a historically bad expansion and it will only get worse. I type this all while playing another game so I’ll be fine. Also the MMO industry is thriving now even without WoW. We all will be fine when WoW goes away.
You don’t need a carrot on a stick if you just make a good game that is fun. Players will waste their time in it. This is a fact and SL just wastes the players time. Players want to play a game where their time is valued not wasted.
I doubt we will agree on anything and I don’t think you are grasping the current situation in order to discuss the topic.