Wouldn't it be shocking

Lore Story Forum
82

Well maybe not stay completely on the path, but at least stay unequivocally anti-horde, no more centimetre of land, no more tolerance, that should be past history.

Really? I see a whole range of possibilities, not just two.

The consequences, do you actually know what you are talking about, you only see two extremes here, no room to breathe on top of that.

Even if the night elves beat up on the horde for a while…the horde did it for 10 years with them, it doesn’t kill the HORDE faction, just like it didn’t kill the night elves.

But there is a whole universe between genocide and simple seeking revenge.

That’s not fair to say, because the night elves are the only ones who have got that so far…only THEY are, and that’s not something every people have either, it’s only THEY.

Just as it is said that if you don’t destroy the Zandalari fleet, they could destroy the whole Alliance, only the Zandalari had that, strange, I don’t hear any complaints about this?

What do you expect, Sarm? That after what BFA pulled off, you could somehow squeeze in a “feel good” legitimacy when genocide is on the table. That would be just like Arthas being told after the fact that he was fully legitimate for the genocide of the blood elves.

I couldn’t care less - by the way - about the underdog mentality in such a scenario, because the alternative would be extremly horrible.

83

No Zahir, I wasn’t expecting that thanks to BFA, and I even said that in the damn post you replied to. I’m not a complete idiot.

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84

Depends on how you go about it. Because the Horde character roster is in such a horrific state that if you even pruned a few more of those dying branches off the Horde tree, you could truly narratively sterilize the faction in this heavy Hero Driven game. Which, admittedly, is an underlying theme and goal I see from some Alliance players with enough sense to know they can’t mechanically wipe out the Horde player faction; so they’ll just ensure the Horde will never find relevance again (while the continue to do like they did an Legion and blame Horde players for “stealing Alliance stuff”).

85

even without genocide, white racism is only a theme, racism is not white, it is not black…it is human, and has no colour.

But as a theme, it exists 99% of the time as a white racist. It is not in the least less discriminatory than the noble savage trope, the difference is…that it is directed against white people :wink:

It can also be used for character building, no one says anything against it.

86

It can be. Which is why I’m one of those perfectly fine with the Alliance “reasserting their dominance”.

But the only way that it could have a chance at working is if the battle was so one-sided and brutal that you make a “pressure turns coal to diamonds” scenario with our reps. Which is why I’ve been pushing for the Lightbound to show up while all the Peaceniks are all gone to really tip the balance of power on Azeroth in favor of the Alliance; so they can get those brutally one sided wins before the LB start getting a bit too shifty … ushering in our Light Cosmology expac. Which is their consequence for their clean win.

The Horde no longer has any legs to stand on in the Faction Conflict thanks to Blizz’s nonsense, so any such “conflict” has to be Alliance instigated and absurdly one sided. With the Horde nearing its breaking point by the time we all get back. With the exception of the Horde character roster, who is expected to get a certainly level of Plot Armor to get and hold maintained development while the Alliance gets their power fantasy.

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87

Isn’t that because white people have most of the power and largely have created the racial stereotypes associated with other races, etc, etc, etc, in our western centric world with our western centric view of history…etc

88

Racism has existed for a very long time, there were no “whites” in the sense we use the word today :wink:

we try to face the consequence of our action because once in the past, our western cultures WERE infact insanely racist and nationalist

That would take away all the “flaw” from the alliance. No, I think … the Alliance should act from its own motives and not need support to take its hand.

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Im not saying it hasnt…im saying it makes sense why stories written now in our current climate talk about white racism

90

You know that with this argumentation the noble savage came into being as a trope, because the writers of that time perceived the world in this way from their perspective?

91

Oh Zahir. I know where this road leads down., and you don’t wanna be arguing about it. Especially when your meaning will not make its way across due to translational differences (aka, lost in translation)

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92

Personally, all I actually wanted as far as a character fantasy went was being able to play a “good monster.” Something that wasn’t actually bad just because they looked weird and scary. It doesn’t get any more complicated than that.

But as you pointed out, the genocide stuff screws with that hard. But my dumb little fantasy ideal was already damaged long before that; BFA just kinda snuffed it out horde-side. Because everything comes with a silent little prefix of “former nominal genocide supporter” that kills what I liked about it.

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93

So as it was brought up, it is entirely possible the victims of Teldrassil became wisps, as that is the gift (likely) Elune grants to the Kaldorei. But Wisps are, like all WoW spirits, corporeal creatures. They die from fire like anything else will, and they would of manifested in the largest fire in Azerothian history. Becoming a Wisp is an interjection from passing on into the Shadowlands by the Sphere of Life, but once the wisp dies that soul goes on like it normally would of.

Yeaa… Won’t happen. They have coded the Alliance as the White Knights, so even getting them duped into committing bad actions through Light zealotry would be a radical departure for them. I will for sure take what I can get.

94

I know about your dream of a Tauren-Mage Sarm, I also know your motives and motivations, we talked about it before. ^^

95

Unless the Lightbound show up as friends and use the Alliance flaws and motives they should have to compel them into that War. Using their motives against them to get a massive foothold situation on Azeroth. Because truly, don’t you think a “Saving the Evil Races from themselves” message would resonate with a LOT of the Alliance people by this point (if they weren’t so inhumanly picturesque and pure)? As its on paper a more humane and permanent solution. And the Lightbound do bring to the table a solution to one of the problems implied by several Alliance leaders for why they agreed to the Armistice. The idea that the Alliance probably could still destroy the Horde if it wanted to, but not without unbelievably catastrophic costs.

Well … the Lightbound and Yrel solve that problem. On paper, they deal with that discomfort of eradicating the by default, deeply flawed, monstrous Horde races as a more permanent solution for their evil. They deal with that expected cost in pursuing further conflict (or even destroying) the Horde. They at least on the surface provide the MEANS in a HUGE way, to the Alliance already existing massive MOTIVES to hit the Horde hard on both continents. All that’s really needed is the right catalyst (OPPORTUNITY).

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96

I know. I’m pretty one-note.

I think I just got a little agitated because I thought you were trying to imply I was expecting a post-Teldrassil feel-good moment. Sorry.

97

The thing I sort of ironically love about the BfA Horde narrative is that the entire thing was designed without ANY method for a satisfying or enjoyable conclusion for the Horde playerbase. Not even an option for it. I mean, even if they didn’t ultimately get any of them, there were several avenues Blizz could have taken the Alliance to get some meaningful resolutions (we saw MANY suggestions for such during that expacs run) … but it was just nothing but a field of apathy among the Horde playerbase.

98

I suspect that that the Kalimdor side of the Alliance would ironically not be as on board as the Eastern Kingdoms side, the Void elves for sure would be put in a HORRIBLE spot as Yrel and Co would see them as monsters that need exerminated.

I have a suspicion that Yrel and her Lightbound might pour out of the largest Fount of Holy Energy on Azeroth; the Sunwell. then basically topple Quel’thalas again unless they destroy the Sunwell.

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99

thank you for the advice :wink:

You know very well that not every people signed, and not every people agreed. The night elves - with the help of an avatar of Elune and Malfurion - were not really willing to give up their portion of blood, which could ultimately serve as a “port” for all those who think the Horde owes them something. And didn’t you say yourself they were enough? (Even before the fourth war)

So it could also prevent the Horde from being destroyed (It’s not the whole Alliance) and it could even show in the end that …even the Alliance doesn’t always agree, is free from flaw, Anduin tried to fulfil his vision of peace against the will of a part of his faction without understanding what was really done with it, he share the blame for his action but he also understands the Horde has a right to survive. The horde defends itself, but sees for itself…the sacrifice of one man is not enough, this hatred, it is self-inflicted, it was THEIR seed that sprouted there…and they are no less responsible, for they brought the hatred first, all too willingly.

On the other hand, the night elves have to accept what has happened, they can’t change it, they can’t bring their people back, they can’t revive the dead, they still have to live in this world. The night elves then retreat back to their forests. Revenge…brings nothing.

This needs a lot of nuance, a lot of tact…something that blizz unfortunately doesn’t have.

100

Which would drive the BEs to essentially extinction, and villain bat the Horde again likely (this time the BEs). Truly, the Lightbound did spend a long time courting people to join their crusade willingly. That much we know. They didn’t START with forced conversion or extermination of those that resisted. Unless they do something to out themselves, there is no reason for the Alliance Faction to mistrust them. Because ONLY the Horde faction has a window into what went on on that world (and our source is not exactly the least contentious or reliable group from the Alliance’s perspective).

And its not like the narrative isn’t already building up that expectation that the VElves aren’t a ticking time bomb. Even among the Alliance. That expectation is already there, even within the Alliance, so like with the AU Mag’har AND Forsaken, all the Lightbound would have to do really screw all these groups over is reinforce those negative stigma and expectations many Alliance should already have.

101

Well… about that. You see, I have a lot of dead Night elves just sorta, laying around in Ardenweald now… and the true avatar of an at least Titan class goddess of Life… so… hm.