What? Is this a joke or?
Everyone knows that they’d never give the Worgen or Night Elves justice.
Uh not really. She got mad after what the Horde did to her home and people, and then didn’t randomly forgive them. Then the Horde commited several more atrocities, including a genocide of innocents out of the blue and burning a world tree and she forgives them?
Yes…it is a joke. rolls eyes
If Sylvanas was like “not the villain”, they would’ve made the expensive cinematics about her instead of the Santana saga, about Sadfang, and the people who had a problem with Sylvanas.
Not about her you say? Not even including all the cinematics using the ingame graphics, or the warbringer.
Also, how many cinematics did night elves get after being eradicated in the game? You didn’t even see a single one on a cinematic lol
In literally ALL of those cinematics Sylvanas is at best, mildly antagonistic, and at worse the villain outright.
And yes the night elves should’ve been acknowledged more you are completely right…however, the cinematics are about Saurfang. And how Saurfang is right. Not the other way around.
not a cgi cinema…thats right. but not the quantity of cinematic is in my eyes the most important thing, but the impact of this one cinema.
If we get a really cool cinema like terror of darkshore…in which sylvanas and tyrande fight…yeah, i would call it a day.
And btw: Terror of Darkshore is an awesome cinema.
We interrupt this forum discussion to report that in the newest PTR build, on the last night of the upcoming raid, the spirit of Saurfang appears after Sylvanas is dead so he can hold hands with Thrall, Jaina, Genn, Baines and Anduin, so they can all forgive Sylvanas together. Tyrande and Malfurion arrive not a moment to late to the scene, angry at the party for not waiting for them to forgive Sylvanas with them as well.
Forgot Vol’jin (hence the edit)
I would argue that the Legion and BFA trailers were meant to make Sylvanas look heroic, because Metzen didn’t know how BFA was actually meant to go down when he directed those trailers. They were his last works, weren’t they?
Which is why in terms of characterization, “The Negotiation” was by far the best for Saurfang in BfA; regardless of Anduin’s forced nonsense. Seeing an Orc of his generation come to recognize that his generation (including himself) were never worthy of the Honor he covets, but at the end really only caring about giving the next generation at a chance at it … was powerful stuff. As was his admittance that “they deserve better” when asked what sort of Warchief he’d be. And that the Horde can’t just escape the sins of the past, and the only way forwards is to recognize their mistakes, learn from them, and try to “do better”.
Truly, in not so many words Saurfang essentially did the one thing that MU Grom and Doomhammer never attempted. Admit that his death would not absolve or redeem him of his sins. Funny how Sylvie’s being prepped with so many outs by comparison lol! Well … I suppose that’s in character for her lol!
i don´t think so, the cgi cinematic need times to make, atleast if you make so many, its need almost a half year for ONE, but we talk about 4-5 cgi cinemas…so maybe two years before they released bfa they started to make this cgi`s. And thats only the process of this cgi, not the PLANNING of this, so i think, atleast he was there as the project was in process.
True, but ultimately the sin of the horde is now even on the young generation, there is no sinless horde generation any more, expect the childs…also the now adult generation that was entangled in the WOT…committed the same sin as the old horde.
So I think the message is only half as strong as it could have been.
No you’re not. You’ll just make an identical post tomorrow and cry over things that haven’t happened.
Yeah I know, but I thought Metzen wasn’t actually part of any other aspect of BFA’s design so outside of the trailer, the expansion was as new to him as it was the rest of us. He claimed that he had no idea Teldrassil was going to burn either, so that couldn’t have been a factor when he was planning out the trailer.
Teldrassil was a…decision anyway after the addon was pretty much set, the gameplay team felt…it was missing something…and then they pushed for Teldrassil.
I think he didn’t know about teldrassil, but he knew a tragedy was going to happen, because the CGI’s were written that way.
I love how they sacrificed a playable race and their zones and took away everything from them just so that they could feature Saurfang and Sylvanas more.
He never “sinless”, he said they were merely worthy of a chance at the Honor he never was. Which was the point of his sacrifice at the end. To give them that chance. And yes, I hate what Blizzard has done with my faction.
I hate them building up the Blue Faction as a bunch of flawless paragons of every virtue ever conceived by man, while the Horde is little more than a plot-device to settup future content/villains. I especially hate how hard it is ignore how creepy it is for them to default back to those Good Race/Evil Race tropes after the method they used to subvert them in the first place was to attach a bunch of RW Hollywood brand NON-European cultural inspirations to the Horde races to humanize them. They would have better off NOT subverting those tropes to begin with if this was the route they decided to go. It would have avoided all the slightly racist subtext they accidentally laced in their Faction writing lol! Their laziness truly has created some stupid problems there.
What I always find a bit hypocritical about this debate is that it is the Horde who are calling for the Alliance to be racist just because they are based on European peoples, tell me, where is that better than the noble savage trope? The European racist is not in the least truer than the noble savage trope.
If they would at least let the Alliance act out their FULLY justified hatred of the Horde now, in the form of clear ANTI-Horde characters in the Alliance.
But somehow they are all either totally turned around or just completely ignored.
Anduin could even remain on his “peaceway”, but his faction should be a anti-Horde-faction right now.
They deserves everything just because of players like you, Blizzard owes you nothing, go away and read or play a story you like, you weird thing.
I haven’t seen a Horde player really call for the Alliance “to be racist”, just that they should have the capacity for it. Rather than these idealized concepts lacking any tangible flaws or nuance. Truly, nothing is more destructive to even a chance at nuanced story telling than how the current Alliance is currently written. There is nothing more inhuman than the races of the Blue Team. When even your lead of your CIA has less moral ambiguity than a friggen Teletubby, you know they’re ideals or concepts; not people.
looks at the Horde redemption thread Hrmm…I see people calling for that, and you know it’s more common and expected.
I don’t think that’s a good thing either, that’s why I was hoping Tyrande would stay on that path, even without NW…but you know, the problem is, the game would be over if blizz did that, like I said before, this action is not for the integrity of the alliance but for keeping the horde as a playable faction.
its even harm and damage the alliance, show them as weaklings, so many people think the alliance is weak…and have no bite, because they allways give up on their grudges, and the horde is often shown as METALL, as Powerfull, as more dominant force.
This attitude as if nothing had happened on the part of the alliance can also be interpreted as weakness ala “please don’t hit me again, I am also nice to you”.
You do get the problem with her “staying to the path”. Not so much her animosity towards the Horde, that’s fine, but her revenge trip against them? Because there are only two outcomes to that. Either A) She just gets to wail on the Horde without consequences, which renders it “less of a flaw, or grey”, and more just the Alliance/NEs reasserting their expected dominance and expected absolutist power fantasy (because whats the point of being ALL good all the time if you can’t be ALL powerful too); or B) There are consequences for it at some point, which the NEs and Alliance players would SCREECH about NE hate for.
Because lets not pretend the idea isnt for the “deserving Horde” to not just roll over or just get decimated by her in her revenge trip? They deserve any pain she throws their way, and she has the power of God and Anime on her side. And, no, the Alliance isn’t even operating in a different genre of fantasy as the Horde anymore in terms of power. If Blizzard didn’t nerf you through the floor any time they turn the Horde into a plot-device, their stories wouldn’t work. You can’t come out of an Expac that pretty much outright told us that the entire Horde is weaker than a single Alliance race and tell me that we were portrayed as “strong”.
I think part of the underdog appeal is having some sort of injustice to fight against, and some just want anything they can point at about the alliance as a reason to feel good about fighting them. But as of BFA…meh. Even if Blizzard did write the alliance as full-on dark, it’d be hard for me to care about faction stories at this point.
Blizzard still insists on keeping a faction divide and for both sides to hate each other. I find it pretty hard to care about disliking the alliance when, whatever few flaws there may be, the story appears to ignore them while making the horde eclipse them anyway.