What does the existence of RDF do to stop them from manually grouping, and said, “player agency”?
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There are character names implicative of RL racial identity etc, and guilds which literally have LGBTQ in their title, especially since Blizzard started wearing rainbow shirts and pins at Blizzcons to make it official that minorities are welcome in their games and shouldn’t have to hide their identity (outside of China).
If you don’t know about players being refused groups due to lgbtq+ status or other real life traits which are apparent through the signals provided, welp…
I mean it’s one of the very few forms of gatekeeping of casual content available, especially when considering how mandatory dungeons and heroics are to be viable for anything else.
I’ll think on this perspective as I understand you’re trying to be fair but the scales are weighing in at a hilarious ratio where only one of these two systems are truly fair and inclusive to everyone regardless of all possible variables. And there’s plenty of “agency specifically for the gatekeeping of others” available in content which isn’t a 12 minute casual dungeon or frozen orb farm.
All this needs to be fixed is add the ability to form groups for the tool using battlenet tag friend lists.
What does the existence of RDF do to stop them from manually grouping, and said, “player agency”?
Remove the people that they want held hostage by a lack of options.
Retail shows that no one will use LFG for dungeons. That fear is perfectly justified. Even if it’s true that back in original WotLK people would still use LFG after they added RDF, that was then and this is now. If Classic has shown anything, it’s that we don’t act like we did in original WoW.
And you can argue that people will use LFG for achievement runs and the like, and that would be a very fair point, but when it comes to the core dungeon experience, it’s not going to happen on LFG if RDF is there.
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Not every friend is BNet level.
Adding that would also lead to more muddied water and slippery slopes. Account wide this, BoA that, why stop at just the cross server invites?
I say leave wrath alone, drop everything on it’s OG content timeline, but it’s too late for that. So, with their “vision” in mind, I give my opinion on it… then again their “vision”…
Just have RDF be server-specific if cross-server is that much of a sticking point. Still a massively better tool than LFD
If you’ve been discriminated against for any of those in game, then I am sorry it happened to you and you should report the players who did it and move on.
That kind of inclusivity comes with the cost of more restrictive grouping systems.
It is this push for inclusivity that resulted in this slope that created retail. It started with dungeons, we can argue all day until our face is red about the value of RDF but, realistically speaking, the inclusivity RDF brought had a role to play in the introduction of LFR and every subsequent retail system thereafter.
Inclusivity is important, but so is the freedom to choose.
We’re going in circles.
Yes, both systems can not coexist. One can try but very few people will choose a less optimal path. Clear examples as mentioned are mega servers, also BiS lists, meta raid comps, etc.
However, once this fact has been accepted, why are both requests equally valid?
Option manual grouping is:
- not inclusive
- less convenient
- chosen by a extreme minority if the other option is present.
Option RDF is:
- inclusive
- convenient
- part of the original expansion
- massively adopted if implemented.
So on one hand you have a much smaller portion of the playerbase wanting to deny the majority a better system, and on the other you have a larger portion of the playerbase wanting a better system, while nominally leaving all other options still ingame, even if players will chose to not use them.
So how are these “equally valid”?
Buh bye 
Validity of opinions are in the eye of the beholder.
You want RDF, that much is clear, and your post shows bias towards it, listing only negatives for no-RDF and only positive for RDF, dismissing the very arguments I mentioned in my posts about how RDF is more restrictive.
Let’s avoid the mischaracterization (that word is a mouthful 
) of either side here.
Can we at least agree to one thing here?
That the issue stems from the difficulty to find groups at lower level content, the poor user experience of LFG, the servers imbalance, the lack of tanks, the need for social cohesion, inclusivity and freedom of choice, etc.?
We can agree that RDF would help in many of those aspects, but it would also have a negative impact on other aspects, whether we wish for it to or not.
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No choice is without downsides. Stating that and wishing for a system that works for all shouldnt be the goal.
Of the options presented, which ones helps the most people on most scenarios? That is all. No need to characterize proponents or represent arguments. Just a pure measure of positive impact or lack thereof.
So honest to goodness, which system do you feel will net a larger positive for a larger amount of players?.
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I feel like giving a shot to their LFG system and if it doesn’t work to just adopt RDF.
one thing is certain, the removal of player boosting (which is not actually removed, just banned for non exploiters. if you exploit, you’re still in business), and the lack of RDF, means as soon as northrend opens, the rest of azeroth will be so empty, levels 1-60 will be painful. 60-70 will be better due to the influx of new dks but they be forced to beg for heals and no high level healer from their guild will be able to help. theres gonna be 70 levels of extremely agitated players, which will resolve down to sub losses
The downsides rdf would bring are already here. The community is diminished from what it was in 08 and 09, players have self selected convenience and having a more transactual attitude (GDKP galore). You are not going to change the modern player mentality on this, I would argue there were valid arguments against rdf back in 09 when community was still an actual thing, but the pros still out weighed the cons even back then imo.
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this is my proposal:
-
revert the changes to player boosting and level gap.
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add RDF for levels 1-70. with a nice bonus xp for dungeon completion that outpaces player boosting.
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add the new LFG tool for levels 71-80, instead of RDF.
i should be able to help others who need help. its silly to punish me just cause i’m a carebear. lol
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Yeah i mean most people would be fine if the Rdf was rolled out for lower zones and slowly moved up or just stayed 1-70.
Also they really should just import the Lfg tool on retail if thats what they want us to use over Rdf that tool has everything you really need in it.
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No matter what everyone gripes about, at the core of everything, the fact that a vast majority of people don’t treat the game the way players did over a decade ago invalidates most (if not all) criticisms of RDF. There aren’t “classic players” and “retail players” in some clear dichotomy— they’re mostly the same people.
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Like what? Most TBC posts are about a few things.
Some troll posts. RIP that Blood Elf Paladin, idk where she went.
Misc posts are random topics.
Majority posts are about the current issue players have with Blizzard, and the opposing side making threads about their support of Blizzard. It was the length of P1. It was pvp. Then it was difficulty of P2 and FvF, and then it was Blizz scandals. Then it was duel spack. Now it’s RDF. It will probably stay RDF till Blizzard introduces it, to which it will switch to Anti RDF posts, or until LK comes to an end, to which RDF posts will become moot.
So again, what issues is RDF blocking, and even if RDF is blocking other issues, the sheer volume of RDF posts should show that it is the issue right now.
I feel blizz should do a mandatory poll (required response from you to log in or something similar) say after the first month of wrath and ask how they like the new system and if they would prefer a different system or revert back to the RDF system. I think this would be a more accurate detail on what the players really want. Everyone thinks their side is right and no one can change their mind right now.
I like the idea of having 2 server types for LFG but theres a good chance it might cause people to leave the server they have been playing on due to it and im sure causing guilds to fall apart because of people leaving.
I think the new system will be fine for phase 1 but after that RDF would be very useful to have.
My friends and I tried using the tool earlier today for ZF. We only needed a healer. As solo non grouped players, we could put ourselves into the tool, but as a party looking to pull from the tool, it broke. No player name loaded in. We resorted to spamming Tanaris /1 and didn’t get a healer until we manually messaged players from /priest 44-47.
If only there was a system in place where we could put ourselves into a massive list, and the game would then put players together to do an instance. What a crazy idea though.
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