Because there is no contradiction.
You obfuscate what people are saying.
It’s like you have a pair of glasses that distort reality and you can’t see anything past your nose. 
Im guilty of overstepping myself, In my defense, I dont come here to start fights like many do, I get frustrated at all the harrassment and negative responses to good posts, im affraid to start posts cause they will get buried in filth and toxicity. I come here for insight and advice from peers and all I get is bullied.
Point is - it’s a weak argument against LFD when players currently treat others like NPCs in dungeons without LFD.
Yes you do need to articulate that you only meant some.
And ignoring the point that people already do the same now without LFD so that behavior is not caused by LFD.
2 Likes
Then how do you explain the multiple Reddit posts(with upvotes and polls) I posted to refute your claims? Just going to ignore it? Claim I’m being too aggressive and gaslight me?
I think the best way they could implement the feature is any time a persons flagged post gets reviewed and overturned (because they didnt actually do anything to be flagged) would be to apply a tally to people who reported that post. After 20 fasle flags give a 1 day forum ban for abusing the report feature (add in a decay like lose 1 tally per month). Then 3 days, 1 week, exc for repeat offenders.
I already said that there are threads that are against LFD that have traction, because there are other threads in favor of LFD doesn’t change that fact.
You are trying to counter an argument that was never made because you obfuscate what people say.
1 Like
Let’s start from scratch then.
What do you consider the strongest argument against LFD is?
And don’t say, “well I don’t have an opinion”, because if you are truly compiling arguments from both sides you’ll have “notes” on what argument against LFD occurs the most.
The fact there are consequences helps prevent people from doing that.
Do you think the cross realm feature of rdf doesnt remove SOME of the consequences for treating people like NPCs? And with those less consequences do you think people are more or less likely to treat people that way when using rdf and seeing they are paired with noone from their realm?
BTW Congrats on your new placement on the community council friend!
Functionally, it will not hurt me because I’m in a guild that is very gear focused and helpful. However, I would prefer it to be added in-game for a number of reasons. I think a large majority of both sides of this argument don’t realize the impact is somewhat smaller than they think but nonetheless, I believe it should be in.
Ease of access to content is the primary. We often think of this for alts, individuals who are unable to play for extended amounts of time, or those on low population realms, but this point is still important for the raid-geared individual. Often I sometimes get the urge to go and run a few BGs as a thing to do when I’m at a loss of things to do or if the idea pops up in my head. Part of what lends to that process is the level of ease it takes to queue into a BG. Even before horde vs horde BGs, I would go on mining/herb runs or take time to do annoying in-game stuff such as organizing my bank during the queue time. Many other members of my guild did this before they decided to begin leveling alts during phase 1 and 2. With LFD, you add that same element to PvE content. Late night with the boys? Why not yolo a heroic dungeon?
EDIT: Ease of access also adds some benefit in allowing the player to engage in other activities instead of having their eyes glued to the chat box. Being able to knock out dailies while also waiting for queue makes doing dailies somewhat less a chore due to being able to kill 2 birds with one stone essentially.
A strong point of LFD is also a means to provide an individual with a point of entry into the game for newcomers and alts for access into groups to get gear, meet people, and progress in order to be ready for raids. Not only that, but dungeons are an important source of Reputation in order to become ready for raids, granting early items, enchants, and other stuff.
With any automated queue system, a common issue comes with toxic anonymous behavior. If you aren’t going to see this person ever again, then why be polite when a wipe happens? Why not lie and say you needed something for off-spec when you fully intend to vendor it.
It will have some level of an impact on the community but I think people are severely overplaying this as the majority of communication required to get into/form a group is minimal at best, with you only whispering the person “inv” and maybe saying your spec. However, a counterpoint I will add is that on private servers that have LFD from the get-go, you will consistently see people advertising for a group to run all heroic dungeons in a day, still allowing for a lucrative peer-to-peer interaction with others.
I saw somebody on the forum suggest a staggered release for LFD in which it only allowed for grouping for older content and current patch content must be done outside LFD. It was something like all 70 and below dungeons being available in LFD while Naxx was out, adding in 71-80 dungeons but not heroics during Ulduar, all heroics then with exception of the ToC 5 men to the list, then all heroic and normal dungeons with exception to the ICC 5 mans. I think this would be a good compromise allowing for new players and alts to get leveled up but not to completely queue themselves to be raid ready.
A retail-style group finder tool may work as well but one serious consideration to understand is that the group finder tool worked because of Raider IO, and in the present a combination of Raider IO and Blizzard’s own M+ rating system in order to vet people for group membership. To that end, if a group finder option is implemented then you will see a rise in the utilization of GS addons in order to vet players which has been the norm for private servers. Already in retail, you will see people asking for substantially higher IO scores to knock out +14/+15. A similar thing exists on Warmane at this current moment with those groups that aim to knock out all heroic lockouts in a day asking for individuals for GS’s that are higher than the gear heroic dungeons provide.
4 Likes
Sure, but they would need to have humans looking at the reports to begin with.
It just comes down to cost for Blizzard, it’s hardly worth it when they spend so little resources on community management to begin with. They don’t need public forums that are courteous and civil because they don’t use the forums for anything other than letting players vent.
It just comes back to what I said about why I think they made the Community council, because it cost less resources to get feedback from that than it does getting feedback from a larger pool of players. 
I actually like this idea. The more someone abuses the flagging feature, the less seriously the system should take their flags.
I’ve been following this mess from day one and most of the Anti crowd have a core complaint. They don’t like grouping randomly because they believe it will bring out the worst in people. So when that is forced upon them, they will no longer be able to pick and choose who they group with and it will lead them to grouping with this bad people they wish to avoid.
My experience was the exact opposite of theirs as I had more fun pounding dungeons, but they obviously care more about who they play with than I do.
It does not remove the main consequence, removal from the group and therefor not completing the run and having to rejoin for another group.
2 Likes
What I personally consider the strongest argument?
It would probably have to be keeping the spirit of Classic intact, things like walking to instances or the occasional fight with the other faction in front of the summoning stone.
They already have someone glance at it after it has been flagged enough. Im not saying to review it every time its flagged, just when it gets flagged enough that it gets sent for review for when a moderator decides if there is a reason to give the flag poster a forum vaction or not.
They do review flagged posts at some point if it gets enough flags for them to have to decide if its something the person meeds a forum vacation for. Also, the abuse of the “real life threat” report should count as 10 tally points, considering that one is the most serious one to abuse.
I too also met and interacted with a lot more people through LFD than without it. I just want to hear what gold text is seeing as the strongest argument against LFD.
1 Like
The flag system doesnt work, they just need to make ignore work so the person you ignore doesnt see your post either.
But this really only applies to pvp realms, on pve realms getting to the instance is just a pure time sink. If LFD added 5 minutes after forming the group it would be the same as having to walk to the dungeon on a pve realm. 1-60 dungeons are a slightly different story as those runs are typically quite a lot longer.
1 Like
Have you ever seen anyone define “The spirit of Classic”?
From what I see flying mounts from the offset eliminate the logic behind “walking to the instance” as well as griefing groups trying to summon being a net-negative to player experience and not healthy PvP(like how priests in vanilla classic would dispel WBs, which Blizz made an item to stop).