[WotLK] Let's talk Dungeon Finder

[Dreamsphere-westfall]

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

ou are more likely to treat your party as NPCs with rdf than without because of a few reasons.

1. You are likely to never see them again.
2. You dont even have to talk to get into the group.
3. You face virtually no consequences for doing so with rdf in wotlk heroics vecause the dungeon will be almost done by the time the vote kick option is available. Due to how easy and quick wotlk heroics are.

1. There’s no difference from now and rando’s in RDF. Invalid point.
2. Even better! +1 for RDF.
3. If you’re getting the heroic done in 15 minutes, then there is no reason to even want to use the vote-kick system. Players can be rude, but as long as they aren’t slowing down progress, vote kick isn’t needed. Use the in-game ignore feature and carry on.

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

It’s so ridiculous the argument the anti-lfd posters try to use. Like they don’t even play TBCC.

[Ziryus-pagle]

And have apparently never actually used LFD given how much junk they spew about how it actually works.

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

Yup, I’ve stopped correcting their inaccuracies. It’s just a waste of time.

[Zipzo-atiesh]

For somebody who has failed to ever make any kind of credible point that isn’t just superficial nonsense drenched in aggressive personal attacks, you sure are the one to be so critical about “valid points”.

@Zaalg-ashkandi

It’s so ridiculous the argument the anti-lfd posters try to use. Like they don’t even play TBCC.

Lol, because there’s definitely no such thing as a certain website where you can go to actually check to see if that player has done anything of note in the game. Nope not a thing, right? Haha.

@Ziryus-pagle

And have apparently never actually used LFD given how much junk they spew about how it actually works.

Same as above.

In fact I’ve used it a lot more as of late, as I’ve been playing with retail.

Verdict: I still don’t want it back.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Zipzo-atiesh

For somebody who has failed to ever make any kind of credible point that isn’t just superficial nonsense drenched in aggressive personal attacks, you sure are the one to be so critical about “valid points”.

@Zaalg-ashkandi

It’s so ridiculous the argument the anti-lfd posters try to use. Like they don’t even play TBCC.

Lol, because there’s definitely no such thing as a certain website where you can go to actually check to see if that player has done anything of note in the game. Nope not a thing, right? Haha.

@Ziryus-pagle

And have apparently never actually used LFD given how much junk they spew about how it actually works.

Same as above.

In fact I’ve used it a lot more as of late, as I’ve been playing with retail.

Verdict: I still do n’t want it back.

Yep which makes it worse because they are actively lying instead of just being ignorant.

[Zipzo-atiesh]

Lying requires a motive.

What’s my motive?

You’ve made a claim, go ahead and bring credible evidence to the table that I’ve any reason to “lie” about the fortuitous negative implications of RDF.

[Ziryus-pagle]

You’ve made it clear you just don’t like LFD so yes you have plenty of motive to lie about it as you can’t provide actual problems with it.

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

Let’s just talk human nature for a moment. Consider the current state of things (which will also be how it is in Wrath without dungeon finder). You spam the LFG channel. You spend hours perhaps sifting through endless WTB and WTS dungeon posts. Is this a fun process? Does this make players immersed and happy? No, it makes them tired and stressed out and annoyed. When you finally do get into a dungeon group they carry those negative emotions into the group. Therefore players have less patience, are a lot more volatile. It’s a recipe for the toxic culture of TBCC.

Contrast that to dungeon finder. You queue up and are free to…go out and quest, go gather, work on professions, grind some rep, explore, whatever you want. What an amazing concept: players can actually play the game. Now the players are relaxed, chilled out, enjoying themselves. You get into a dungeon and those emotions transfer into that experience. Groups are far less stressful, players get along better, behave better without that burned out irritation resulting from the horrendous process of forming a group in TBCC.

This is just common sense stuff. That’s how people work.

[Zipzo-atiesh]

@Ziryus-pagle

You’ve made it clear you just don’t like LFD

Then it’s not a lie. It’s just speaking how I feel. You obviously don’t know what “lying” means. That requires malicious intent.

Actually it’s been clear you’ve no idea what lying is since the dual spec discussions.

@Zaalg-ashkandi

Let’s just talk human nature for a moment. Consider the current state of things (which will also be how it is in Wrath without dungeon finder). You spam the LFG channel. You spend hours

…I am always willing to give benefit of the doubt, and I’m with you all the way up to there.

This is such an absurd exaggeration, and it never actually happens. Nobody takes hours to put a group together. It’s a ridiculous over-shot reference used as a way to drive your point home but it represents likely a near non-existent base of people who probably run up such a waiting time to form a party.

[Ziryus-pagle]

Exactly at the end of the day the goal is the same, get the dungeon done. LFD is simply a better experience to do that if you’re pugging.

[Dreamsphere-westfall]

I don’t think Zipzo is intentionally lying. I think they just have very skewed opinions and viewpoints on things. I can also imagine that they consistently pick the least common opinion and rally for that side, with no legitimate reasoning other than ‘oppositism’.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Zipzo-atiesh

Then it’s not a lie. It’s just speaking how I feel. You obviously don’t know what “lying” means. That requires malicious intent.

Actually it’s been clear you’ve no idea what lying is since the dual spec discussions.

“I don’t like LFD” is not a lie. Fabricating problems with it is lying, which is what you and some others have been doing.

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

@Ziryus-pagle

Exactly at the end of the day the goal is the same, get the dungeon done. LFD is simply a better experience to do that if you’re pugging.

According to these trolls with dungeon finder every player is going to spend every dungeon runing in circles naked while screaming racial slurs. Talk about a strawman.

But it’s to be expected. Toxic people expect that toxicity from other players. Projection at its finest.

[Zipzo-atiesh]

No that’s called being a contrarian, and is definitely not the case here.

I look at what retail became after RDF.

I believe RDF contributed to what it became.

I don’t want RDF.

It’s a simple equation.

@Ziryus-pagle

Fabricating problems with it is lying, which is what you and some others have been doing.

No, they are real problems with it. You are the one lying by acting like they aren’t problems, when all the evidence has been shaken out for years that they are problems.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Zipzo-atiesh

No, they are real problems with it. You are the one lying by acting like they aren’t problems, when all the evidence has been shaken out for years that they are problems.

Because none of the evidence shows they are problems, at best you can say it changes the experience. Well no duh that’s exactly why people want LFD to improve the experience.

[Zipzo-atiesh]

@Zaalg-ashkandi

According to these trolls with dungeon finder every player is going to spend every dungeon runing in circles naked while screaming racial slurs. Talk about a strawman.

Irony, because this is an actual, literal strawman.

Go ahead and quote where anyone said this…?

@Ziryus-pagle

Because none of the evidence shows they are problems

It all does. There are thesis papers on how WoW’s social element was caved due to features like RDF. There’s plenty of material out there to familiarize yourself, that you are far too lazy and inept to engage, with all the ways in which you are dead-butt wrong.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Zipzo-atiesh

It all does. There are thesis papers on how WoW’s social element was caved due to features like RDF. There’s plenty of material out there to familiarize yourself, that you are far too lazy and inept to engage, with all the ways in which you are dead-butt wrong.

Except classic is demonstrating that those theories were utter garbage since it has singularly failed to recreate the original social atmosphere.

It’s so nice when you can actually test out theories then laugh at them when they’re wrong.

[Zipzo-atiesh]

@Dreamsphere-westfall

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. Your belief is wrong.

Lol, and they call my arguments circular…

No, you’re wrong!

@Dreamsphere-westfall

This is the core problem here. You simply don’t want it. You have no valid reasoning why, you just simply don’t want it.

I do. It contributes to a de-sanctification of communion with players on your realm, thus desaturating the social elements of the experience in WoW.

There’s one reason.

@Dreamsphere-westfall

There are problems with literally everything.

True, but fortunately for us, we play a game where a developer can remove the problematic things, and it is that which they have done.

@Ziryus-pagle

It most certainly has not been recreated.

It most certainly has.

[Xanthak-durotan (Xanthak)]

C’mon Zir. At the end of the day, BOTH sides are going to spin things the way they want. It’s not “Fabrication” or “Lying” if you disagree with it. People saying it takes away from the social aspect of the game, aren’t lying. That’s just how they see it. “Yeah, but i proved …”. No one has proven anything. All of this is subjective.

I mean, this whole “social” aspect, it’s not hard to see or figure out - even if you don’t agree with it. Perspective really shouldn’t be this hard. And you already know, i have don’t have a horse in this race.