This is an incredibly good argument
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Honestly? There really isn’t a difference other than an automatic teleport to the instance (aside from actively responding/advertising LFG for insert instance.
Just ran through an LFG dungeon and it wasn’t bad per say.
I didn’t get an XP bonus after completing the dungeon, which kinda sucked as I’m used to that in retail, but I also got some pretty good gear. I also got the same amount of dungeon experience as I would with any dungeon for WOTLK. Watch mana, don’t zerg bosses, don’t be greedy, etc. It’s all very similar to what I remember experiencing back then.
For me at least, I’d say keep the current system, but once you get a solid group, the group leader should have the option to have group teleport to the instance (sort of like a role check mechanic with the raid groups). Everything else - the LFG, the dungeon mechanics, etc that are currently in place should remain in place.
Evasion, lmao.
Classic gatekeeping bro.
Back to your mothers basement.
Literally read my response to his post. LMAO
This is the screeching casual stuff I’m referring to.
Classic Vanilla was the best we’ve had so far. Flight and summoning stones were not bound to TBC. You see people use the “I’m the only one who goes to summon” “flying isn’t social” gripes constantly in their RDF arguments.
How could this possibly be toxic?
You are way off track. What does any of that have to do with summoning networks? You don’t like tipping 5g or something?
Dudes on Grobb even added some sweet RP flavor to their services. It was awesome!
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Okay, my immersion breaks every time I log off, lol, what does that have to do with having immersion breaks baked into the game?
This is literally you.
Keep in mind people complain about summoning stones and flight constantly when they’re advocating RDF.
I do dungeons every time I log in. You’re being hyperbolic.
I also don’t raid log lol I’m a daily player.
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Does it just tickle you inside to pretend you actually believe this? Lol
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Ah ye, waiting and seeing if the game is seriously harmed in an incredibly predictable manner for incredibly predictable reasons means you are super swayed. You literally had to be shown a window into our direct future already come to pass for you to even consider that it is even a possibility that it might play out that way.
Doesn’t seem likely given I am about as far from a casual as you can get. I’m just not a moron and actually care about the health of the game.
Rofl. Vanilla Classic was disastrous. It fed off of one of the most immense wells of nostalgia that has ever or will ever exist in gaming, and succeeded primarily in reminding people how god awful the Vanilla game design was, introducing people to how cataclysmically toxic the people specifically interested in Vanilla Classic are, and then falling apart half way through same as the recent retail expansions.
Serious? The summoning networks were a direct fork of the hyper meta-slave culture of Classic.
I mean, the only thing disingenuous about his comment is that he’s implying he thought you weren’t pinned for some time now, which I doubt. Precisely zero compelling arguments have been brought forth by the anti-RDF crusaders. No one who doesn’t already agree with you (the vanishing minority that they are) thinks you’re just killing it out there. Anyone with even a modicum of objectivity can very plainly see the absurdity and bad faith of 98% of all attempts to defend your position. There’s a couple anti-RDF people who actually interact in good faith, but they’re not regular posters.
The “debate” has been over for a long while now, but it is necessary scutwork to continue to balance out your verbal poison. Most people don’t have the stomach to take apart disingenuous argumentation over and over and over and over. Even for me it is exhausting, but I am propelled by an interminable compulsion to do what I can to care for the places I spend my time and the people I spend it with, and that extends to virtual spaces.
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I actually do believe it. People who claim looking for a group is a social interaction are trivializing true social interactions. They must be emotionally stunted to think that. It’s like thinking the walmart greeter saying “Welcome to Walmarts” as you walk in the door and me saying thanks is a social interaction. There’s a cashier at my local Safeway who always asks, “Did you find everything you were looking for?” She doesn’t mean it. If I say no she’s not going to stop checking out my groceries and help me find the item I couldn’t find leaving everyone behind me to wait… It’s just a polite phrase and I always respond, “yes” even when it’s not true.
Common courtesy and polite phrases isn’t socially interacting. I really do pity those who are so desperate for it that they have to force people into this trite exchange of politeness. They can’t have experienced true social interactions if they’re so desperate to grasp at the tiniest exchange of common courtesy.
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Pretty funny you say I’m not logical or reasonable, and that my opinion is immutable, and then double down when I say that someone who actually has a good argument is compelling.
I said “we’ll see how it goes this time” because that’s all we can do. Blizz isn’t adding RDF.
How. Lol. It was an excellent revisit of an old school MMORPG. It wasn’t perfect, but it was pretty damn awesome.
How do you come to this conclusion? Retail tourists piss and moan about world buffs and you think it’s a failure?
Population was between 1.5M and 1M through the entirety of Vanilla. So sorry. It wasn’t a failure.
Nah man it was emergent gameplay conducted by some capital minded players that added some nice RP flavor to their service. It was player made and player rewarded convenience. Daddy Blizz didn’t need to hold anybody’s hand on that one.
Ever considered you’re just not putting in much effort into socializing?
Lol an s appender.
Yeah man if this is how you treat your pugmates and all you put into making groups then no wonder you don’t find it social. You treat it like grocery shopping lol
I mean, you don’t, you’re just making things up in your head about people who disagree with you so you can feel better about your opinion.
I get repeat groups very very often. Because I’m social, and people wanna play with me again lol
That’s how 99% of the people in 99% of the pugs treat each other. They are just polite and courteous. They say lfg for x dungeon, /inv please, good job, and thanks for the run. Maybe a comment or two about how to do a particular boss fight or cc. Either you don’t do pugs or you’re lying if you deny this. I like to do dungeon runs and I’ve done them a lot. I played from the first week of vanilla release through BFA and the first week of classic. Even if you claim I’m not social, even if I was quiet, I’d have heard the other 4 people in the groups chattering away about their wives and kids, their troubles at work, or how their favorite sports teams are doing. But I don’t because 99% of the time in 99% of the pugs no one socializes.
I don’t believe you. Based on your posts here I’d avoid inviting you to any group I formed.
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In linguistics we call these “phatic expressions”. A fun fact about them is that they are so void of semantic information on their own that you could pretty much grunt (and often we essentially do) in their stead and people will understand you just fine. If you’re learning a new language you can replace most phatic expressions with those of your target language and practice them in your everyday life even while in a non-immersive environment.
My dude you were shown an alternate universe where events had already come to pass and your response to that is virtually nothing. It’s not even the minimum that you did. You were shown in the most explicit possible way (outside of an actual crystal ball) that your position is wrong and it didn’t have any actual impact on you.
I’m a literal beta tester from vanilla, who played all the way through the original trilogy and then proceeded to play maybe an additional full expansion if you combined all of my revisits of the game over the years. I then played through AQ in Vanilla Classic, which was nothing like Vanilla. Changes that ruined the spirit of the game were in, and things which ruined the spirit of the game if left unchanged and then subjected to the modern playerbase remained. Sure there’s some nostalgia that was impossible to mess up that I enjoyed, having not played on private servers and therefor revisiting things I hadn’t seen in over a decade, but that is no achievement. I would have gotten more nostalgia from having my screenshot collection from back then and just browsing it for an afternoon.
It was truly astonishing just how poorly designed Vanilla was, and we got the least-poorly designed version of it. Combining that with the players that defined the Classic playerbase and it was just horrifying. I lost about 99% of the little remaining respect I had for video game players as a group when phase 2 dropped. Did the expansion have literally zero virtues? No. But it gave with one hand while taking with at least seven others like some nightmarish spider demon.
What it was was more tedious metagaming by the most absurdly toxic meta-gaming playerbase I’ve ever experienced.
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Mmmmhm adds up.
Okay lol
Based on your posts here you don’t wanna have to form groups at all, soooo
You’re also only mad at me because I disagree with you ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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How do you feel about Dungeon Finder not being added to WotLK Classic?
What do you think are the positives of having Dungeon Finder?
What do you think are the negatives of having Dungeon Finder?
Do you think an hybrid solution could be implemented, whether it be a partial Dungeon Finder or a different solution altogether, and what could that solution be, if you can think of any?
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I don’t think it really matters how anyone feels. Blizz clearly wants to die on this hill more than AV honor farmers outside Drek.
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Easier access to doing what you want to do instead of watching LFG chat hoping to find a group without absurd reserves. Or you could ‘start your own group’ and watch it not fill for an hour. Epic gameplay.
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The massive volume of socially broken players won’t get to keep pretending WoW is Adult Friend Finder with a game stapled to it.
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Yeah, probably. Maybe the billion dollar company should come up with a real solution though instead of failing to copy and paste something that already exists (group finder)
Happy. I’ve played both retail and classic, and I personally find putting together a group and travelling to a dungeon more satisfying than queueing.
Many people above have cited the positives of dungeon finder and are advocates of it, so I’ll let them be the proponents of it.
- Less social. When you have to communicate to decide who is going to the summoning stone, or just saying “hello” when you join the party, that isn’t really social. However, it does break the ice and leads to actual conversations. Additionally, since finding a group is harder and the group is already communicative, people frequently want to rerun dungeons with the same group, meaning you’re more likely to make friends. With RDF, I find that people never communicate - because they don’t need to - so that ice is never broken. And if you can just requeue, there’s no reason to stick with the same group.
For example, just recently my friends grouped with this absolutely terrible paladin tank - hilariously bad. In RDF, that would be a quick leave/kick and refill. With the current system, my friends taught the tank how to ranged pull and how to tank better. They ended up joining our guild, and are still horrible, but it is still an experience we joke about weeks later. - PvP. I play on a PvP server, and though sometimes annoying, I enjoy the summoning stone fights and interactions. Just random battles at Auchindoun or in the Coilfang Reservoir are fun, even if you lose half the time. RDF completely removes this.
- Incentive to play with players you know. If you can easily put a group together, you rely less on guildmates and friends for dungeons. I have tanked dungeons for guildmates and friends countless times because they’re struggling to find a random. With RDF, they would just queue up and I would hardly ever play with them. Sure, I get little to nothing out of it, but I have fun and build stronger relationships with people I already know. Many people will say this sounds like a con, but to me it is a pro. I like needing to play with friends and guild.
- I find teleporting to dungeons immersion breaking, and making your way to the dungeon and being outside of it is fun and immersive to me. Additionally, even more people sitting in cities than with the current BG spam. I like seeing people out in the world even if they’re just flying from Falcon Wing Post to HFC.
- Gear competition. Not really a big deal or even a frequent thing, but on occasion my friends or myself really want a piece and don’t want to compete with a random for it - so when we put together a group, we make sure to only invite those who won’t compete for it.
- Intangible - I just like the current system better.
I know people will say “You can do most these things with RDF”, but they’re not considering how everyone actually plays the game - the path of least resistance to gear/progression is more important than fun, immersion, or anything else.
For example, AV is genuinely a fun mode if both sides play it as intended. However, it’s faster to get honor by following the meta. So, players follow the meta. I would love to play AV as intended, but that requires many other people, and myself, to sacrifice honor gains. I think you’ll find few people willing to do that. There are many other examples of this fact - if you provide an easier way of doing something, that’s how every player will do it.
With RFD, players have a more efficient way to get gear and complete dungeons. Sure, I don’t have to use RFD, but if everyone else does, then I don’t really have a choice. It’s also hard for me, as a player, to justify dungeoning the less efficient way even if I like it better.
The path of least resistance should be the path that leads to socialization, interacting with the enemy faction, teamwork, and fun - and in my experience, RDF changes the path to a path that minimizes these occurrences.
I prefer the current system - the current group finder seems great besides the role bug. However, there are a few solutions that I would understand Blizzard going with:
- RDF but you need to travel to the dungeon
- RDF but for prior expansion content.
- RDF but near when it was released in retail - towards the end of the expansion.
I don’t think RDF should exist for heroics. I like the idea of having to put together a group to get harder content done, to me that makes it feel more special. It’s similar to arguments against retail’s raid finder.
As a last note, I think most people in this thread are pro-RDF because it’s the backlash of it not being added. If RDF was added, you might receive a similarly sized anti-response. So just be aware of this statistical bias.
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Has nothing to do with those demographics. Zoomers aren’t playing Classic WoW, lol. What potent drugs are you taking to detach you from reality to this degree?
Airtight. Level headed. Wonderful post. Thanks for wrapping it up so nicely!
I’d vote this for the representation of the no-RDF perspective.
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No, I don’t. It’s a boring stupid waste of time. I want to join the rdf, get in a queue, go quest or farm, and let the tool find the group. That doesn’t mean I haven’t spent a lot of time finding groups. I like doing dungeons, I’ve done lots of them on several alts and before there was the rdf I had to find pugs with the /4 looking for a group chat channel.
I don’t care about you at all. A couple of weeks of not talking to you I’ll forget interacting with you in this thread completely. I won’t even remember your name.
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Maybe I am just completely disassociated from reality and my entire Classic experience has been a figment of my own imagination. You’d be onto something if you weren’t also a imagined!