here we agree 100000000% percent. its dumb that it doesnt exist.
2 Likes
personally I donât care if every single QoL thing was added to the game, itâs not the lack of convenience that makes me like the older content.
It was the content, it was how classes felt, the environmentsâŚthe lack of confusing overwhelming systems that take hundreds of hours to do and to figure out.
Hell add an LFR for all those people complaining they canât find pugs that arenât GDKP
4 Likes
#nomoreservers guys MAKE SERVERS A COSMETIC CHOICE AND LET EVERYONE PARTY/GUILD/RAID TOGETHER
1 Like
Server choice is so impactful right now because you either roll on a megaserver and deal with queues⌠or you roll on a server without queues that is volatile and will unlikely retain the population it gets from free character migrations. The latter choice involves making a dent in your wallet when it comes time to leave the underactive servers.
1 Like
You must not have PVPâd competitively. The S8 Blizzard tournament was the worst PVP has maybe ever been.
theyre never gonna refund those transfers but i think even so, its better to just take #nomoreservers, and stop presenting problems people can avoid pay paying with account services.
2 Likes
Sorry, I donât agree with your opinion. WotLK started the party/raid buff class homogenization & more.
What i find wierd is how far back the PVP system got automated and cross realm zoned. Pretty much in vanilla, you started to PVP cross realm against players from other realms.
Even now in classic, you can que up for PVP. PVP has always had a que system for matchmaking. And that is what i wish the que system for wrath worked currently. It just would not automatically teleport you to the dungeon.
I also think it should not be cross realm. The fact that you never see the same people in PVP anymore is so annoying. But it wasnât like that for long.
The ideal matchmaking system for me when it comes to a dungeon finder, is to automate the matchmaking process, based on tanking, healing and dps. Then once the group is formed, you are alerted what the dungeon is, and then you would just trek down to the dungeon together with your team mates. And there would be no cross realm.
There are a few issues though. Mainly with keys. If you get match made with a team for scholomance, for example and no one has the key. You are beyond stuck. I personally think that the current classic players have more in common with the retail players than they would think.
For one thing, no one wants to level up anymore. I mean, the paid level boosts and everyone being fine with them mostly, speaks volumes to me. BLizzard had to crack down on boosting as well, to prevent those good old stratholme runs.
I mean, personnaly, if we are having paid level boosts in classic client. I see no reason to add the dungeon finder as well. Specifically for leveling up though. It would not apply to raids or heroic 5 man dungeons or really any end game related content from 60 - 80. That i always felt was one of the biggest issues with dungeon finder in wrath. Like man those 5 man heroics became easy overnight. Dungeon finder should have been reserved for leveling.
Right now, even as we speak, i am using the listed system. It has been 2 hours and i have yet to see a group form. And any of the groups that have formed, they usually break up pretty quickly. Someone dies and they canât handle the walk of shame. Or something like that. Or i didnât realize the dungeon could take 2 hours plus.
I mean, it is very easy to understand the appeal of the dungeon finder in wrath. For one thing, it wasnât cross realm yet. The other feature that i liked was the lack of an optional boss counter. That was added in cataclysm. Basically now, in retail , itâs like, why do that boss. He isnât needed for completion. Others might need gear, but who cares.
I also think it is mighty hypocritical to allow paid level boosts in classic, but NOT include the dungeon finder. That is some bullcorn to me. I mean, as i said, it is all about getting that max level anyway. Do whatever it takes to get there ASAP. And no one seems to really care about leveling anyway. It is all about getting it done. So i say add the dungeon finder, Just make it so it doesnât apply to any of the end game shenanigans. Raids, heroics, etc.
The dungeon finder was what you made of it. I personally think the game would have been better off without it ever being added in the first place. I also liked the fact that the original dungeon finder, the idea of class equality and class homogenization hadnât hit the scene yet either. Like, in retail, i never run out of mana. I can spam my abilities all day every day on every class. I only run out of mana on a healer. And it just makes the dungeon finder addon even worse. I donât understand how anyone heals in retail now. It is always, keep up with the group and bust out those heals, or get kicked.
The funny thing is, i have seen the same stuff in classic regarding healers to. Everyone is about moving and getting things done ASAP. So, i dunno about anyone else, but i would rather have an option that boosts the group matchmaking process to be faster at the same time. I mean, i see no reason as to why the dungeon finder shouldnât exist. Especially in a community that is obsessed with having everything ASAP anyway. Especially leveling up.
Heck, there is nothing more enticing to alot of folks, than that shiny leveling boost hanging over them in the classic client so they can skip the leveling entirely. I just want to actually be able to get groups to form. But most of the time, they just donât. And if you do get a group to form, it is a pain in the butt. Least if someone rage logs during the dungeon finder process, you can just find another pretty quickly.
One of the things i hate about the dungeon finder since it came out is the vote kick system. Because it gets abused. Cannot count how many times i have seen a healer get kicked because they werenât healing fast enough. Or someone was maybe a new player and their dps was kind of low. So stupid to me. The dungeon finder in general was a mistake, but, as anyone would guess. Anyone who grew up with wrath were pretty shocked when an iconic feature that many grew to like was suddenly not there anymore. Color me surprised by that one.
I would also like to point out that phasing was added in this expansion as well. Basically it set different quests and different groups to different layers based on what quest you were on. It was only in the death knight starting area, but in my op, this just broke immersion. I mean, it was cool seeing more fluid character animations, and how certain quests, you could see major lore characters and quest givers interacting with the players, with voice dialog and voice acting and all that. But, if you were in a different phase than someone else, you could not see them.
I honestly just prefer the random catch phrases. You would run around azeroth with the music, and the occasional, time is money friend!!!. Or something like that. Heh heh, glad i could help.
Wrath of the lich king i think was popular because it combined the perfect blend of automation, player agency, and casual play vs. hardcore play. It was the perfect blend of the 3 things. You still had to rely on folks in order to complete your quests.
Like i never ask for help in retail lol. I never need help while questing 9 times out of 10. Ever. And you never see anyone in the same spot for more than like a millisecond. And all this bullcorn is always popping up in your face. Like look at this new feature. Or try out this. Or whatever. Retail is insanely quick. Only real thing retail even has going for it is the end game features, like pvp and raiding.
Retail also lacks the classic wow 1-60 overworld as well. They did not even bother to add it back in with chromie time, and it was the perfect time to do so. It was the most iconic part of wrath classic to me as well.
The story was also the best in wrath to according to many. Wrath of the lich king just had everything. Some qol changed in retail are better. Like aoe looting. And cloth stacking to 200 and not 20. Cross realm mounts are amazing. But retail has done more bad than good. They had it perfect in wrath.
I miss how complicated the class designs were in this expansion alone as well. Hunters had so many abilities, and there was a huge difference between the reall good hunters, and the ones that were just kind of playing. Everyone just blends together in retail. That is one of the big things about dragonflight that excites me though, is hybridity of the talent trees.
1 Like
November 2004 was the start of Retail. Every second this game has existed has been Retail. And the game was always about accessibility and convenience.
That said, let the current WoW be current WoW, and let Wrath be Wrath. Meaning it should be authentic to how it was originally. For exampleâŚinclude RDF.
5 Likes
Technically Vanilla was the start of retailâŚ
Itâs not like TBC didnât have some major changes either.
Heroic dungeons that absolutely slapped, badge currency, real daily hubs, 25 man raiding with 10 man catch up, arena, revamped honor system, F L Y I N G (which some people would argue ruined the outdoors) and now that I think about it they did cross realm BGs for TBC so that was actually the first barrier they crossed.
LFD is actually the second cross realm feature they ever added, and cross realm features is what Classic players seem to be the most up in arms about as it degrades community (or at least that is the argument).
The more popular opinion is that Cataclysm was the beginning of the end. Wrath is what everyone wants to play.
No the WOW Classic community wants you to walk uphill both ways, just like THEY did back in their day!
There was plenty of community in Vanilla classic.
We started with the entire community leveling, forming friendships and guilds, and just generally having a super active world.
In phase 2 guilds made alliances for world bosses and you knew who you were likely to be fighting on the other side. Most pvpers knew who their competition was and who the groups on the other faction were and their relative skill/strength. We had guilds with similar raid schedules band together because the horde would almost always have 2-3 full raid groups in BRM waiting.
In phase 2.5 and beyond you had large pvp ranking communities form and many friendships across guilds formed which lasted all the way to the end of classic.
In phase 5 we had the war effort. While people still whine about collusion it was undoubtedly some of the greatest amounts of teamwork and coordination that I think weâve ever seen (yes, some of it was cross faction too). We saw both alliances and grudges form between guilds because they wanted to fight for bugs. On my server phase 4-5 was also the period where GDKP communities really started to rise.
There was tons of community interaction and a majority of it was because the game actually facilitated and necessitated it.
TBC and the death of non mega servers put a large dent in the community, but it was definitely there throughout vanilla classic.
Yeah well weâre on WotLK now. This isnât the vanilla classic forum and we donât care about vanilla classic here. WotLK is a different game and has different demand.
2 Likes
False. Vanilla was the start of retail
Say what?
Vanilla was very successful for its time and was quite fun.
If you were there for the launch of Wrath it was a nightmare with servers crashing not to mention the week downtime.
All Expansions have added to this game, Well also taken away from the game.
TBC was imho one of the best releases for wow.
Wrath crippled the Palis due to their bad formula for mana pots / caps.
We wont even mention the many quorks that came with Wrath.
Not too sure where you were in the days of wrath but it really was not a casual thing.
However comparing to todays wow yes it was.
Cata really shook things up by reworking the whole old world.
Cootos to the Dev team as that was a serious endevor moving all the npcs to the new spawn locations.
This also puts this in the same class as wrath.
We are going to forget MOP ever happened as it started out as an april fools joke went rogue.
And then we have the Iterations of wow we now know which basically nerfed the game in general.
Due to Creature comferts, as you mentioned.
The game we have now is nothing like the game we had in the early days.
Spell Tree pruning / Quest sync / Talent Tree um what a joke we have in current state
But it is from the ones who said oh this is too hard. WoW is to complicated. When in fact we were able to be unique in the past. Now we are all cookie cut toons.
Only thing that really makes us different is our gear for the most part.
I remember the days of TBC when we would see players popping in and showing their new Tier gear which was something we had not seen yet as it was so new and fresh.
Even wrath had worlds first within 24 hours -.-
Not Vanilla or TBC though.
This shows where the nerfing of content started.
Now I respect what you are saying and in some aspects you might be correct but as far as the start of retail no my friend you are very incorrect.
As for putting what works in current and putting it into wotlk classic, this would basically distroy the Wotlk experience we all enjoyed âCreated by Blizzard Entertainmentâ "Not "Activision / Blizzard " and Defo not âBlizzActoSoftâ Fix the bugs ie spells Balance the skills but leave it Wrath not Wrath2k22!
We pushed for classic! Not scaled down Retail!
By adding all the new (Questionable) QoL to Wrath it would totally take away from the experience and also leave room for the micro transactions Implemented by Activision.
Sorry I could not stay quiet with the opening statement.
Oh yes and there Was Casual in pre wotlk.
It was called a Forum/Teamspeak/ Etc.
Heck Guild listings were even here in this community back in the day.
The tight community we once knew here in the Blue Crew forums are on life support in comparison to the past.
Personally I hope the QoL does not make it to Wrath as it is not the way Wrath was.
With that said Ill shut up now lol, Sorry for the wall of words I just had to put my view out there also.
In actual wotlk the servers were like small southern towns, plenty of âcommunityâ.
Now the servers are more like New York City, and people are still screaming about the non-existent âcommunityâ.
Sorry until the mega servers cease to exist there will never be community.
And until the NEED for mega servers arenât required for a decent gameplay experience, mega servers will be desirable.
2 Likes
I Fully Agree with you Aervotic!
The sad thing is they are basically worried more about the $ figure vs the quality of gameplay.
This is not the Blizzard that opened the wow franchise.
True Blizzard listened to the community and addressed issues.
We might not have liked how they addressed the issues but they still did address the issues instead of remaining silent.
That was before Activision sold the community out by getting rid of a large part of the web community staff.
And now they do it again when it came to Microsoft. One can only hope we move away from the Activision ways and into greener pastures.
Lets hope they do not treat wow like windows ( I joke ) Wait No I donât!
Please wait Wow needs to restart to install some updates⌠( In peak hours when people generally raid) 
The Sub numbers reflect the choices Activision has made lets hope Microsoft make better choices and reinvest some of the revenue back into their newly aquired product.
Perhaps: add a few servers to give a little breathing room for those leveling or what not.
Just an idea or food for thought.
I honestly always felt like cataclysm wasnât as bad as it seemed to be. It was hard on those heroics. That i will give it credit for.
But they deleted the old overworld, which was a big deal. Still is. Like i love retail even now, but i cannot choose the old overworld. The only way to run og deadmines and sfk and all that, is to play wrath classic. Still annoying even to this day.
But phasing took off. They nerfed everything. And homogenized all the classes together.
But i enjoyed cataclysm for what it was. But i definitely think everything became less and less complicated going forward. Cataclysm could have been alot better to be honest.
I mean, flying was open to the the revamp to, which i think was a mistake. I like flying to an extent, but not when you can portal around everywhere at any time, and fly around anywhere at any time. Flying used to be restricted to two continents.
And i think that having the ability to fly be earned in more recent expansions instead of just being handed to you is a good idea. I still even now if i am playing retail and i am in org or thunderbluff, i choose not to fly. Ill fly in northrend. But not in the older zones.
1 Like