So if there was no trade restriction, would you like PL?
It wouldnt change the spoil of war feel, but still, would it be a more viable option for you if the former was changed?
They could have solved PL issues in retail by removing this part, but they apparently feel the need to protect people from being strong armed into handing over their loot after a boss dies. Ultimately though if you don’t have the restriction the difference between ML and PL is fairly nuanced other than in an organized raiding environment you may have to hand over all the loot over to the RL to divvy up as necessary. It would just protect a pug or trial from handing over loot, but at that point they’d probably be getting kicked.
The other issue is that people are less social these days in the game, pure and simple. It’s a total crap shoot as to whether or not they offer up their loot when they don’t want it. I’ve been in runs where people offer up loot they don’t want, but plenty of runs where they don’t unless asked, and then you have people who think asking people if they need the item is too intrusive or offensive. On average I would say people seem to be a lot better at observing how people are rolling on a drop, and basing on if they roll for it based on that.
PL makes sense in a less socialized world. There’s an argument to be had that even without LFD the social repercussions in Classic don’t exist as they did originally so you could argue to have it around for pugging dungeons, but it seems too niche and divisive to bother trying to incorporate into Classic, and honestly the game is perfectly fine without it. Somehow, in my experience at least, the Classic playerbase has largely functioned just fine without having big daddy Blizzard hold their hands.
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It would be more tolerable, but I still wouldn’t LIKE it, it’s a feel thing.
I do think it’s fine for things like dungeons. When you run a dungeon you’re less likely to have every role and armor type covered so it feels bad when you get an agi dagger in group with no rogues or hunters, specially with the more limited loot.
(Looking to retail, can you imagine M+ where you only get 2 items and one or both of them no one can even use?)
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same reason why rdf isnt in. people who want to keep the control over gear and be a control freak
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RDF and PL aren’t even in the same ball game.
PL doesn’t even let you do what you want with blizzard calls “your loot”, if it’s my loot I’d be able to trade it no matter what.
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That’s how I feel about it. At its core, there really is no difference. In some niche cases PL is even better as it rewards stacking armor and weapon types, as the only useless loot is loot that is useable but unneeded, unlike with ML, which can drop a bow with no hunters, caster plate with no hpallys, etc, ontop of all the bloated boss tables with useless DE trash that no one wants to begin with. In terms of gaining items, PL on paper just seems better if you could just have unrestricted trades.
People dont need to be as social, even in classic.
Ive thought about this for a while as I tend to get into the rdf threads and get bombared with social this and social that.
Its just not needed in 2022.
In 2004, where is mankriks wife was a legit question. Its a meme now and for good reason. Most players know where her body is, and if not, questie/wowhead is asked first, not the playerbase. Apply that to every other quest, or item, or instance, etc. Players dont need to talk to get info anymore, and thus the social construct which was made via a lack of information dies when information no longer needs to be obtained by players. Now we have players who havent needed to talk, so when put into a situation where they can, or even should talk, they dont. Just is what it is.
Just quoting so you get tagged as well, I dont like doing multiple replies.
Glad to see youre not hard stuck no on it, even if my example is really just what if.
I think PL is great for pugs. It eliminates the ability for players to be toxic and take items, whether they need it or not, and it eliminates dead items from the table that no one in the party or raid can use.
Speaking of M+, idk if they changed it but S1 was only 1 item per run, so 1 out of 5 players got loot. I forgot the name of the instance but it has a gauntlet in the sewers before the final boss, one of the two venthry instances. Ran it 17 times in a day once, got the loot twice and neither was the trinket I needed. True sadge.
Edit: 17 times to completion. Including failures, it was over 30 runs.
In season 1 if you didn’t time you got 1 piece, if you did you got 2, they changed that so you got 2 pieces if you didn’t time but one was lower ilvl.
Nah PL is fine for random groups like in RDF or LFR, it’s just awful when it’s not optional in other settings.
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It was in time, but this was also like week 2 and week 3 of SL.
There may have been a bug, no clue.
But I know it was supposed to be 2 items on a timed key, down from 3 in BfA.
I just looked up a dated wowhead guide. It is 2 for timing the key, 1 for not timed but completed.
Its all blurred together between the failures and completions. I was pushing around +10s give or take a level so while you would expect pro ahead of the curve players to be good, youd be really wrong.
All i remember is I never got the item i needed.
It also prevents progression guilds from targeted gearing to try and make their content pushes smoother. There is a reason why they are giving the option back to the raiders in Dragonflight.
Personal loot worked so poorly on retail they had to add weekly chests and later the vault to make sure you got SOMETHING. As an example of it going really poorly, I raided the first 6 lock outs of Uldir and got 0 items from personal loot.
Pushing ploot would then need to involve adding a vault. Simpler to not create the problem needing the vault solution.
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wut?
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Okay, I see what your saying…However, 99% of people making a case for RDF is not tying personal loot to their argument. RDF is literally the easiest way (currently) to form a group for dungeon when guildys and friends are unavailable (which is often in most cases).
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I would be okay with this as long as they let you trade no matter the ilvl and also the option to master loot.
Personal loot on retail is garbage because of those restrictions.
I’m not advocating for personal loot as i myself prefer master loot or group loot in general.
With that being said, I don’t particularly think there is anything inherently wrong with the concept of personal loot overall. It does serve a purpose and help with certain scenarios.
However, if we were to add personal loot, In my honest opinion, I think it should be a system where the group “VOTES” if they want personal loot upon entering a run. This way, guilds can continue to function normally as they do with master loot/group loot and “pugs” have the chance to “majority vote” if most players wanted personal loot.
Just make a dropdown option in the masterloot/group loot right click functionality and if the group leader wanted to change loot from personal loot at any given time, the “vote prompt would show up again while outside of combat”.
At the end of the day, WoTLK didn’t have this system like retail so no matter what I don’t think it should be a feature in WoTLK classic. But if they wanted make this change to retail I think it would be a positive change to the current “personal loot forced on everyone option”.
While master loot and group loot have had its issues over the years, there is a valid reason why every single top guild in the history of WoW’s entire existence used master loot. It’s just simply more efficient and helps make sure the more valuable players to the “groups success as a whole” the priority on gear that will make a bigger impact on progression and success. Having both would just be the right answer with a small vote system for “group majority” to decide on the system.
I hate personal loot but i would prefer it over not having RDF
Anyone that says RDF is the downfall of retail is wrong. Personal loot is the 2nd to worst thing retail has ever introduced (outside of LFR).
Personal loot is so garbage, I would quit tomorrow if they put it in the game.
There is a reason they are actively working to remove it from retail, because everyone hates it.
Who’s pretending it doesn’t happen? I’m just saying that with group loot, you’ll at least have a chance to roll on it. You may win it, you may not.
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Because cringy warriors use leather for some of their bis. This will be unobtainable for them.
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