WOTLK doesn't need RDF

[Öongaboonga-benediction]

The Future of Warcraft Announcements -- Wrath Classic

What do you think of the announced Wrath of the Lich King Classic, coming later this year? What are your thoughts about the tweaks being made to the game with this update?

[Zipzo-atiesh]

Nothing in this thread provides you with anything substantial or even remotely suggestive that their decision is changing.

[Aurumai-whitemane]

@Eolorn-myzrael

@Aurumai-whitemane

I’d just like to point out that you happen to belong to the audience that J. Allen Brack was addressing when he delivered the infamous “You think you do, but you don’t.” line. I’m not trying to tease you; rather just wondering whether you’re aware that we’ve reached the point now where the separation of Classic from WoW’s Retail pathway has in fact become extremely important.

No, he was talking about people like you.

Um… What?

You said:

@Eolorn-myzrael

Spamming LFG for four hours then logging off is not an experience I want. No matter how authentic it is.

When asked the question, "Have you ever thought about adding servers for previous expansions as they were then?", J. Allen Brack said, verbatim:

“No. And by the way, you don’t want to do that either. You think you do, but you don’t. Remember when you had to, like, spam cities, and say ‘Need a tank need a tank need a tank’ during the Burning Crusade days? You don’t remember that, because now you just push a button that says ‘go to the dungeon’. You don’t want to do that.”

In what universe are you not specifically who he was addressing when he scoffed at the idea of bringing back old WoW? And what on Earth makes you think that he was addressing me? xD

@Eolorn-myzrael

Note, it doesn’t have to be the LFD tool, it can be the retail version of LFG (that you have to use for mythic content). Cross realm, battlegroups etc etc. All that will have to happen. At that point, what will be your argument against LFD?

Are we talking about the same thing? I’m talking about Dungeon Finder as it was implemented in 3.3.0. The tool that allows you to queue for multiple selected dungeons or just random dungeons in your level/gear range, forms the group and teleports you to the dungeon. The one that awards you with the ‘Satchel of Helpful Goods’ and gold, along with the badges for daily dungeons.

I’m all for the Looking For Group interface. That’s just a UI extension that helps players look for more or look for group. That doesn’t remove the necessity of travel, knowledge of dungeon locations, or the cooperation/communication needed to form a group.

That distinction is very important because the tools are completely different things. Mind you, I haven’t played Retail since the end of Legion and I don’t remember what the cross-realm LFG tool was called, but I did like it. I wouldn’t mind having that in Classic, though I’d certainly expect it to be realm-specific only.

@Feywaif-atiesh

I want the feature to be able to play the content. Many people, especially dps, find that they weren’t able to play the content because they were spending so much time looking for people to play the content with, often unsuccessfully

I have yet to see any real evidence that it’s so difficult to form groups that it would make any sense to add a feature that nudges Classic closer to Retail by a significant margin. Dead servers are one thing, and the way Blizzard has handled that has been atrocious to say the least, but in principle, my own experience (on multiple realms with extremely varying degrees of population size and faction balance) has been that forming groups doesn’t take so much longer than a Dungeon Finder queue that you could say this feature is necessary to experience the content.

Also, I’d point out that you quoted me responding to someone who said that Wrath “sucked” without Dungeon Finder. I think it follows logically that when someone thinks the content doesn’t have enough merit on its own and needs Dungeon Finder to hold value, they should just play a version of the game where Dungeon Finder is available. Retail.

@Feywaif-atiesh

Did you play wrath for the whole 12 months that the dungeon finder was part of the game or did you quit a month or so after ICC was released and you geared up?

Yeah, I played Wrath from the day it launched to the day Cataclysm’s pre-patch went live. I loved Wrath dearly. I enjoyed leveling quite a few characters and raiding on several of them too. Even during the content drought, I was having plenty of fun farming ICC, PUGing other raids and leveling alts.

Why does it matter?

@Cauchy-heartseeker

@Zipzo-atiesh

Imo

This was the only important part of the entire post.

Haha. You’ve reached Notglinda levels of useless, unconstructive spam.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Aurumai-whitemane

Are we talking about the same thing? I’m talking about Dungeon Finder as it was implemented in 3.3.0. The tool that allows you to queue for multiple selected dungeons or just random dungeons in your level/gear range, forms the group and teleports you to the dungeon. The one that awards you with the ‘Satchel of Helpful Goods’ and gold, along with the badges for daily dungeons.

I’m all for the Looking For Group interface. That’s just a UI extension that helps players look for more or look for group. That doesn’t remove the necessity of travel, knowledge of dungeon locations, or the cooperation/communication needed to form a group.

That distinction is very important because the tools are completely different things. Mind you, I haven’t played Retail since the end of Legion and I don’t remember what the cross-realm LFG tool was called, but I did like it. I wouldn’t mind having that in Classic, though I’d certainly expect it to be realm-specific only.

That’s the point the LFG tool is very different from LFD and it’s definitely a good tool. The problem is it doesn’t solve the same problems LFD without being cross realm and/or without addressing other issues like low level dungeons.

And the LFG Tool is also for a lot more than just dungeons in retail. The thing is right now forming a dungeon group is already just about as robotic as LFD, so who cares.

[Glinda-shadowstrike]

@Aurumai-whitemane

You’ve reached Notglinda levels of useless, unconstructive spam.

Would a hug help, friend?

[Cauchy-heartseeker]

@Aurumai-whitemane

unconstructive

Yeah… Let’s try to be constructive here. People are furiously flailing to petect their dungeon boost rackets.

[Ziryus-pagle]

@Cauchy-heartseeker

@Aurumai-whitemane

unconstructive

Yeah… Let’s try to be constructive here. People are furiously flailing to petect their dungeon boost rack ets.

Or they don’t want to take off the rose colored glasses.

[Feywaif-atiesh]

@Aurumai-whitemane

I have yet to see any real evidence that it’s so difficult to form groups

I have yet to see any real evidence to people’s claim that it’s easy to form groups. You haven’t even presented any evidence for your claims that it’s easy to find groups. Send us a link to how many dungeons you’ve done with the time it took you find the groups. I mean, you want real evidence from us, Surely you have real evidence to support your claim.

[Aurumai-whitemane]

@Ziryus-pagle

And the LFG Tool is also for a lot more than just dungeons in retail.

True, and I’d be perfectly happy to see just about that entire tool ported from Retail into Wrath Classic. Of course, without cross-realm stuff.

@Ziryus-pagle

The thing is right now forming a dungeon group is already just about as robotic as LFD, so who cares.

I do care. I know you don’t see merit in it, but I like the necessity for cooperation and communication, even if it’s minimal. I’d prefer even robotic effort over just clicking a button and having a significant part of the experience of the game effectively removed.

@Glinda-shadowstrike

Would a hug help, friend?

Are you both Glinda and Notglinda?

@Cauchy-heartseeker

Yeah… Let’s try to be constructive here. People are furiously flailing to petect their dungeon boost rackets.

You can keep piling the hyperbole onto your mountain, but it’s not going to make Blizzard and more sympathetic to you (or your time on these forums any less wasted).

[Elorael-remulos]

@Snárf-mugthol

I wonder how Mcdonalds would do if they quit selling food, would that be an improved business model?

McDonalds doesn’t also charge people a monthly fee to enter the store. If it did, people might start complaining that they’re also charging for the food.

[Piezuri-benediction]

@Aurumai-whitemane

I do care. I know you don’t see merit in it, but I like the necessity for cooperation and communication, even if it’s minimal. I’d prefer even robotic effort over just clicking a button and having a significant part of the experience of the game effectively removed.

For the most part, there’s little to no socializing even with manually making groups. They simply don’t happen and many players end up not running many dungeons at all, especially late in the phase and expansion.

[Elorael-remulos]

@Cauchy-heartseeker

People are furiously flailing to petect their dungeon boost rackets.

I’m trying to protect my server community while gaining the positive effects. Middle ground is still an LFD tool that is realm-locked.

[Aurumai-whitemane]

@Feywaif-atiesh

@Aurumai-whitemane

I have yet to see any real evidence that it’s so difficult to form groups

I have yet to see any real evidence to people’s claim that it’s easy to form groups. You haven’t even presented any evidence for your claims that it’s easy to find groups. Send us a link to how many dungeons you’ve done with the time it took you find the groups. I mean, you want real evidence from us, Surely you have real evidence to support your claim.

Why are you slicing up my statements into simple things without context? I didn’t say “I have yet to see any real evidence that it’s so difficult to form groups.” – I said " I have yet to see any real evidence that it’s so difficult to form groups that it would make any sense to add a feature that nudges Classic closer to Retail by a significant margin."

I think it’s quite important to be specific here, since many of the people who want Dungeon Finder seem to struggle in representing the arguments and statements they disagree with. It makes me worry that they’re simply not understanding the arguments and statements.

@Piezuri-benediction

For the most part, there’s little to no socializing even with manually making groups. They simply don’t happen and many players end up not running many dungeons at all, especially late in the phase and expansion.

I don’t mind if it’s a small amount. Mind you, there are many reasons why I don’t want Dungeon Finder, and the communication aspect is just one of them.

[Piezuri-benediction]

@Elorael-remulos

I’m trying to protect my server community while gaining the positive effects. Middle ground is still an LFD tool that is realm-locked.

And what of the servers with no community, that LFD was partially designed to assist?

@Aurumai-whitemane

I don’t mind if it’s a small amount. Mind you, there are many reasons why I don’t want Dungeon Finder, and the communication aspect is just one of them.

We need to run a lot more dungeons in Wrath.

[Elorael-remulos]

@Piezuri-benediction

that LFD was partially designed to assist?

Connected Realms.

LFD will not (and did not in 2008) fix dead realms, because the raiding aspect and the “people in the world” feel that anti-teleport people complain about, is not affected.

[Feywaif-atiesh]

@Aurumai-whitemane

Why are you slicing up my statements into simple things without context?

Fine. I have yet to see any real evidence that it’s so easy to form groups that it would make any sense to eliminate a feature that was a part of wrath in it’s original state. If you want evidence from us link us to your record of your dungeon runs and the times it took you to find a group

@Aurumai-whitemane

a feature that nudges Classic closer to Retail by a significant margin

That’s your subjective personal opinion that the dungeon finder moves the game closer to retail. Everyone has there personal opinion where the line is between the original parts of the game and what they consider retail. Some people claim it’s when they made the massive changes to the talents. Others claim it was when they destroyed Azeroth in Cata. Some claim it was when they introduced that “retail feature” flying. Your opinion is no more valid than any other.

[Piezuri-benediction]

@Elorael-remulos

Connected Realms.

LFD will not (and did not in 2008) fix dead realms, because the raiding aspect and the “people in the world” feel that anti-teleport people complain about, is not affected.

They let players on dead realms run way more dungeons than before. Mashing them together will help the actual server problems, but cause problems - whereas LFD doesn’t really cause much real problems that aren’t already present in game.

I don’t mind removing the teleport, but I’m tired of spamming LFG.

[Elorael-remulos]

@Piezuri-benediction

whereas LFD doesn’t really cause much real problems that aren’t already present in game.

It literally started the ‘faceless NPC’ and toxic behavior trend that Retail is filled with now. If you can’t see that, you are just thinking about yourself, and already exhibiting that “What can I get regardless of the damage to others” attitude that cross-realm LFD creates.

[Zappbranigan-arugal]

If I had to compromise, I would restrict LFG to normal until we reach the patch in which it was first introduced.

Dead realms combined with paid/gold boosts removing the levling community from wow make the LFG tool a life saver for those who enjoy leveling.

Robotic/minimal social interaction via an LFG tool is better than none at all…

[Piezuri-benediction]

@Elorael-remulos

It literally started the ‘faceless NPC’ and toxic behavior trend that Retail is filled with now. If you can’t see that, you are just thinking about yourself, and already exhibiting that “What can I get regardless of the damage to others” attitude that cross-realm LFD creates.

The changing community was already doing that before LFD even came out.